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    • still walking Cabrera
  • 4/6/12
  • six-hopper
Can't do that. When you move your 3 or 4 hitter out of his spot in the batting order, you must replace him there with the worst hitter among your bench players. If you were a seasoned baseball professional like Jim Leyland, you'd know stuff like that.

Edited 4/6/12   by  six-hopper
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  • 4/6/12
  • bobrob2004
"So help me God (or, for you and others, the FSM), if he replaces Fielder with Kelly on Prince's day off - and bats Kelly fourth, I'm going to be sick."

You know it's going to happen at least once this year. That's a classic Leyland move.
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  • 4/6/12
  • ericg75

<<I wish Leyland was more dynamic with his lineups.>>

That's a pretty hilarious complaint. The #1 complaint I read on this board regarding Leyland is that he doesn't have a consistent lineup day after day. Now you're saying he should switch it up more?

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  • 4/6/12
  • six-hopper

"Now you're saying he should switch it up more?"

No. He's saying he should switch it up more intelligently


Edited 4/6/12   by  six-hopper
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  • 4/6/12
  • ty mccobb

Your taking it out of context. I expressly stated that it was just the Cabby/Fielder switch I liked. That move is dynamic, instead of statically letting Cabby get walked all year.

Flipping the 3rd and 4th hitters, based on righty/lefty matchups isn't really switching around more - it is proactively eliminating a tactic teams will use against you.

Leyland gets lineup criticism for the following:

1. Not dropping AJ. Carl Crawford got dropped in the lineup, AJ didn't Nuff said.
2. Not having a consistent BOTTOM of the lineup.
3. Replacing Cabrera and Fielder caliber players with Kelly and Inge type players, and slotting them in the lineup in the position of the guy they replaced.

All valid criticisms?

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  • 4/6/12
  • TigersFanATL

It's game one.

I want to see if this is a new Austin Jackson this year. If he shows he can do what he did yesterday for the whole year, I don't want him out of the leadoff spot. And he did show some patience yesterday. Two instances he was down in the count and he worked the count back.

So far so good.

Really, no criticisms on my end yet.

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  • 4/6/12
  • a2dave

"1. Not dropping AJ. Carl Crawford got dropped in the lineup, AJ didn't Nuff said."

So your criticism here is that Leyland should have done things more like a team that missed the playoffs and fired their manager?

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  • 4/6/12
  • TigersFanATL

The minute Fielder truly starts hitting AL pitching those intentional walks will drop for Cabrera.

Secondly, most teams will do that to other 1-2 punches (i.e Utley/Howard, Tulo/CarGo, Mauer/Morneau, etc.)

Yes, you want to avoid the 3-run HR if you walk Cabrera to get to Fielder but you gotta look at two things:

1. Fielder is a double play candidate.
2. You get Fielder out in any manner besides the double play, you go directly to Delmon. And most pitchers would say "I'd rather pitch to Fielder and Young than Cabrera and Fielder."

Until Fielder goes on a torrid pace, Cabrera will still be pitched around a bit.

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  • 4/6/12
  • a2dave

I'm not sure I buy the whole "protection" theory anyway.

I don't think it's unreasonable at all with less than two outs to walk Cabrera to get to Fielder. Why would you want to give the Tigers' big hitters two shots at getting that big hit, when you can limit them to one?

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  • 4/6/12
  • TigersFanATL

It'll depend on how well Fielder is hitting. If he's hitting "okay" Cabrera will still be walked a good bit.

If he's crushing the ball, Cabrera is going to have better opportunities to hit IMO.

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  • 4/6/12
  • ericg75

<<1. Not dropping AJ. Carl Crawford got dropped in the lineup, AJ didn't Nuff said.>>

Fair enough.

<<2. Not having a consistent BOTTOM of the lineup.>>

Most teams don't have a consistent bottom of the lineup. If you find one, tell me about it.

<<3. Replacing Cabrera and Fielder caliber players with Kelly and Inge type players, and slotting them in the lineup in the position of the guy they replaced.>>

I can find no instances of Cabrera getting replaced by a Kelly/Inge type player last year. The only other guy who hit cleanup was VMart. Martinez was replaced by Boesch, Raburn, Avila, or Peralta. I found one instance where Dirks hit there and one instance where Betemit hit there.

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  • 4/6/12
  • a2dave
But why bother? If there are less than two outs, your best case scenario is hoping to get Cabrera _and_ Fielder, when you could just walk Cabrera, set up a double play, and try to get Fielder, and possibly a double play. Even if Fielder is really raking, in that first scenario... even if you get Cabrera, you still have to face Fielder no matter what.
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  • 4/6/12
  • bobrob2004
Cabrera had a .448 OBP last year. Very high, but it still favors the pitcher as he got out about 55% of the time. Why give up that advantage by walking him? Yes, you're giving up on the possibility of him getting an extra base hit by only giving him only first base, but you're also giving the Tigers a better chance of scoring by giving Fielder an extra RBI opportunity.
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  • 4/6/12
  • ty mccobb

"I can find no instances of Cabrera getting replaced by a Kelly/Inge type player"

It's happened before.

"In what was one of the more pathetic and lackluster lineups the Tigers have used all season, Detroit had none other than Don Kelly and his .250 batting average and three RBI batting cleanup behind Miguel Cabrera. Don Kelly? When we start seeing a guy with zero career homeruns and four career extra-base hits to his name batting fourth and providing protection (or lack thereof) for Cabrera"

https://www.facebook.com/note.php?note_id=98084091723

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  • 4/6/12
  • ericg75

I specified "last year" in my post, but the fact you had to go back to July of 2009 to find an example tells me that it's not as big of an issue as you perceive.

Also, look at the rest of that lineup. Who should be hitting cleanup? Josh Anderson? Adam Everett? Laird? Santiago? Maybe pull old Clete Thomas off the bench?

Let's face it, offense was not our strong suit in 2009. It looks funny to see Inge hitting fifth, but he hit 27 HRs that year.

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