This is just sickening to digest that we parted with our best prospect in exchange for this situation.

get over it

We could have gotten Roy Halladay, or Cliff Lee for him back in the day. So to me, it hurts because of the pitchers the Yankees could have acquired.

if you really believe that.,I feel sorry for you. That is sad.

As an aside, no matter what kind of pitching depth we have, I WOULD pay a ton for Cole Hamels if he became a free agent. He's pretty close to that CC level of being worth it, in my opinion.

"Okay, here's the explanation. I traded a young hitter with character issues for one of the best young arms in baseball. He got hurt. It happens."

"Perfectly stated! Glad to see that there are level headed posters on this board."

So showing up for camp for your new team, 20 pounds over weight and out of shape, is now a sign of "good character" according to you? Hard to believe you people are serious. You guys keep taking steps backwards defending your very weak position. Watch out, pretty you'll step right back off the cliff.

Keep being in denial. Keep believing Pineda will become an ace. Keep insisting Montero can't catch, in spite of what, one of the best pitchers (if not the best) in baseball says about him. In other words, keep living in your fantasy.

Boy, do you even follow this game? Maybe you should drop out of the conversation for lack of credibility. Montero hit two opposite field home runs in Yankee stadium in one game.

And .281, with more RBI than anyone on the Yanks not named Swisher, is NOT a slow start. Especially for a 22 year old rookie. OY!

I am not sure that Cashman made a good move. I say that because I had heard a couple of people say that Pineda had an attitude problem. Makes sense because I find it hard to believe that a team, even a weak hitting, need a bat team like the Mariners would give up a stud kid pitcher that they could build on with King Felix. Personally, I think that when Pineda came into camp woefully out of shape, that changes his mechanics and here comes the injury. Montero is never, in my opinion, going to be a decent big league catcher. He can hit, but the Yanks did not need another bat looking for ab's as a dh or pinch hitter. If Pineda works out, it will look like a steal but that possibility is at least a year away now.

Pineda was an All Star caliber pitcher in the first half of last year. Then the bottom dropped out and he stunk during the second half. Do you honestly think the Mariners would've traded him away if the 22 year old rookie continued pitching like a young ace?

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His W/L and ERA were worse. His WHIP was only slightly worse, his BB/9 and K/9 were actually BETTER... and his velocity was the same. His dropoff was fatigue-related, more mental than physical, and caused by lack of run support.

It's pretty well-documented stuff.

And yes, i think the Mariners would trade a star pitcher for a star bat... because they have a TON of arms... and no blue chip hitting prospects in their system.

And obviously... I was commenting purely on the initial speculation and the fact that his surgery was arthroscopic in nature, rather than open surgery.

Obviously now, a timetable has been released, and he's out for the year. So I was mistaken.

That said, I still wasn't as wrong as the guy who said Pineda needed fking Tommy John surgery.

Oof, you got me. He did that at home. Me and my bad memory.

But again... 18 games is not enough to build a case that his swing was "tailor made" for Yankee stadium.

And he's done nothing to dispel the notion that he's not a catcher.

Also... his .281 is on the heels of a 3/5 day. If we had this conversation 24 hours earlier, he was batting .254

Oh, and how many games has he caught this year? Five. Out of 17. So if he were here, would he be playing as much as he is in Seattle? Probably not. Because you have to wait in line to be the DH in New York, with Rod, Jeter, Tex, etc.

"Star bat"? This is Jesus Montero we're talking about, right? This isn't a young Yogi Berra. I just find it hard to believe that somewhere in the past several years of their futility they hadn't picked up a quality bat for the farm that was in the lower numbers of the draft.

Personally, I think that when Pineda came into camp woefully out of shape, that changes his mechanics and here comes the injury.
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Come on now. Lets not exaggerate things. He came into camp a little heavy.

And for all intents, Girardi and Cashman said he got his weight down to where it belonged within the first 3 weeks of camp. The organization wanted him to develop the change, he showed a willingness to do it. He seems like a generally good kid.

And I swear, I don't think some of you guys realize how easy it is for a guy who's 6'6"+ and 260 lbs+ to gain "20 pounds."

Sabathia broke camp around 265 last year, and by the end of the season, he was pushing 300 and I don't hear anybody whining about his "character issues."

give him 6 or 7 months, i had the same surgery, I'm 18 years old and got 90% of my velocity back after 6 months

Not saying the weight was it, I am saying to my mind, him coming into camp overweight showed a definite attitude problem. This is a 23yr old kid who just got traded from a team going nowhere in the near term to a WS contender and he comes in at 260. It is a pretty well known fact that he was "spoken to" by more than one of the veterans. Again, injuries happen and someone that big and strong generates a lot of torque on his arm, elbow and shoulder. We could have used him this year and if he had lived up to his billing, he would have been a welcome addition. Now we have to wait till next year to see if he can come back and be productive.
I agree with you on Sabathia, I think his weight is a real issue. Seemed to me he struggled at the end of the season and in the playoffs. That said, Pineda is not Sabathia and he needs to come to camp in shape.

"Star bat"? This is Jesus Montero we're talking about, right? This isn't a young Yogi Berra. I just find it hard to believe that somewhere in the past several years of their futility they hadn't picked up a quality bat for the farm that was in the lower numbers of the draft.

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I don't entirely follow where you're going here. Are you saying that I'm underrating Montero? Or overrating him?

He's definitely a star bat in the making. For me, I highly doubt he ever offers ANYTHING in terms of defensive value. And honestly, I don't think he's going to hit the ceiling that a lot of ther people expect, so without defensive value, he's replaceable. It's still a tough loss, especially with a kid that's been hyped so much for so long.

give him 6 or 7 months, i had the same surgery, I'm 18 years old and got 90% of my velocity back after 6 months
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Al Leiter basically said he had the same surgery, although I believe his was more severe. He said the recovery took a full year.

However... his surgery was also what? 20 years ago? Pretty sure medical procedures have improved since then. And I'm also pretty sure that Leiter's surgery was "open surgery" rather than 'scope'

I really believe that Sabathia's issues were the result of his routine being messed with.

For a guy that size and height, keeping his timing and repeating his delivery is the biggest thing. And it's hard to do, especially for TALLER pitchers.

Sabathia's really good at getting into a flow, and a routine, and keeping things going on a steady basis. When they start skipping him days and moving him around, that likely impacts the rest of his throwing program, and results in his body/timing getting out of whack.

He didn't struggle until Girardi started giving him the extra rest.

I wanted to punch someone this morning when I read that CC's getting an "extra day" this time through the rotation. He looked good against the Rangers. Let him pitch on his normal rest! He's a horse. An extra day or not isn't going to make a difference for him.

But what was your point about Seattle being so desperate for someone like him, that they would trade away a young bona fide AS-caliber pitcher like Pineda?

But what was your point about Seattle being so desperate for someone like him, that they would trade away a young bona fide AS-caliber pitcher like Pineda?
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My point about that is... they're in an ultra-pitcher's ballpark. They can plug a bum like Jason Vargas into their rotation and he'll give them pretty decent innings.

That said, they have a LOT of young arms in that system, and not a lot of offensive players.

And Jack Z. had a hardon for Montero for a while. He'd probably have traded King Felix for him, if we had pushed harder and offered a bit more.

Not sure I agree but who really knows. CC throws a lot of innings and it catches up. My problem with him at the end of last year and even the year before is his inability to put hitters away. He throws a million pitches and it seems everyone goes to 3-2 with a bunch of foul balls. He is a great pitcher and he is a big guy and more importantly, he knows how to pitch and he knows what he wants to do. It is easy for taller pitchers to get out of synch, a lot of moving parts. I just think his stamina would be better going into the playoffs if he carried less weight. You are correct, he started the season at app. 265 but he really got big towards the end. Not good for him.

"they're in an ultra-pitcher's ballpark. They can plug a bum like Jason Vargas into their rotation and he'll give them pretty decent innings."

With that statement alone, please remind me what was so special about Michael Pineda that the Yankees were willing to give up that "star bat" Montero and Noesi for him?