On Atchison, Valentine has used him, just not since the 17th. But up till then, Bobby leaned on him more than Morales and Padilla for IP. Scott has also been in the same number of games as Morales, and one less than Padilla.

I would think he would not be traded, as he's been pretty good for the Sox.

Does Bobby not like him?

I have only one problem with BV..I'll get to that later.

IMO, BV is "getting up to speed". Sure, he had Spring training to find out about his players (who he can count on and so forth). But ST is really not a Lot of time to get up to speed. I think we can notice that in the first few weeks of the season. It seemed as if every reliever he broughyt in was getting Hammered. Well he's found a few that he's comfortable to using..............which brings me to my one beef. (IMO) I think he is going to Overuse (or burn out) a couple of these guys. Padilla being one of them. Padilla has FAR exceeded MY expectations and maybe BV's too. But it seems as if he pitching every day. (I know thats an exageration)

Pretty close to being the same situation with Aceves. (But HE is the closer, so really, what can you do?)

I know in a BEST case scenerio BV would have about 5 Guys he could count on, but so far that hasn't been the case. I hope after we start getting our injured back that They can take some of the load off of Padilla and even Aceves (Baily) Or I really am afraid they'll burn out by the AS break

I don't know. I just know there were numerous times over the past 6 games where he could have gone to him and didn't. And when he has used him it's been only for one or two batters. He's pitched a total of 1 inning in the past week and a half.

Apparently Atchison is mostly relegated to mop up duty in Valentine's mind. That's why he had more innings pitched than Padilla until recently, and also why he's been used so sparingly of late. But honestly I don't understand why that appears to be the case, especially since Padilla has not looked anything close to solid lately.

Coming into this month, the top three starters have not given the pen much rest.

You kind of expect the number four or five starters to not be able to be as effective as the top three, but you might expect similar innings.

But aside from Lester, Bard and Buchholz have not lasted deep into games, which I believe has caused additional stresses on the pen we might not have normally seen.

I'll also agree that Bobby's moves in April seemed like OJT, or shaking off the rust - it's been a decade since he's managed in the Majors. But that's not his fault Larry reeled him into the job.

Going forward, if the starters improve, then the pen guys will get a lot more rest. If they falter like April, it's going to get pretty ugly - uglier than its been, IMO.

Okay, fine.

But looking at the roster, there are other guys I'd think would get the heave-ho before Atchison, no?

Albers?
Cook (sure)

Well, it's either Albers or Atchison who are likely to be let go when the time comes. May wind up being a flip of the coin. Personally I'd keep Atchison and move Albers. But who knows what will happen between now and when they have to make that decision.

Thank you , true for acknowledging the efforts of Bobby V (who I supported as Manager from get-go, btw)....he has done a very good job of making the most out of the bad hand he's been dealt...an excellent example of this is the unorthodox but successful thus far shift of Gonzo to RF in order to play Youk at 1B and the still hot bat of Middlebrooks at 3B...

while his personality can grate at times-mostly in his younger days I might add...Bobby V has a brilliant baseball mind...and was surely the most qualified of the rather limited options the Sox were interviewing....

and lets not forget that he inherited the equivalent of a high school cafeteria for a supposedly major league clubhouse with the chicken n beer clique led by prima donnas like Beckett and Lackey....

definitely high grades for Bobby V's work at the 1/4 mark of the season....long way to go yet...Go Sox!

The short starts do account for some of the overwork of the pen, but some of Bobby's decisions have added to it. Using Aceves in Philly last Sunday with a 4-run lead in the 9th inning was one instance where he could have saved some stress on one of his key pitchers with a different decision. The way he used the pen in TB in the series before that, at one point using 3 different relievers for 3 consecutive outs is another example. And using both Padilla and Aceves in 5 of the last 7 games is a 3rd. Even though today's an off day I think both of them will be walking out to the pen at some point tonight to start loosening up out of reflex.

Valentine has done a good job shuffling the workload of the 3 lefties in the pen, so none of them get overworked. And I realize Aceves, by virtue of being the closer, is going to get a lot of work when the team is in stretches where they're winning a lot of close games. But there are others in the pen as capable as Padilla, so there's no reason to lean so heavily on him to the point of possibly burning him out.

The shift of Gonzalez was borne out of necessity, not some brilliant move. With a complete roster, the only way Gonzalez sees RF is if he chases a pop fly into shallow right, or he overruns first trying to beat the throw.

The chicken and beer stuff is grossly overblown.

But the essence of the point is that Valentine deserves some credit for getting as much out of the situation recently, as possible.

If he were to be graded in April, he'd be riding a bus back to Stamford, CT, IMO.

From what you just said about giving Valentine some deserved credit, fwiw, my overall opinion to you, for now has done a 180 degree turnaround.
ps I have been wrong is my negative assessment of Atchison at least for now and feel he should be used a bit more than he has been.

I see what your saying and I was not a fan of BV but I will say nobody expected all these injuries.
Maybe that they were going to have trouble but the injuries have really hurt them trying to get straightened out and get on any type of a roll. To be where they are I got to give them credit. As to getting guys back the farther they get toward the all-star break makes it easier for them to make deals and some of these guys will go and he will get prospects in return who will not be on the 40 man roster. In short if they don't make a couple of July deals I will be shocked.

"The chicken and beer stuff is grossly overblown."

You must be Becketts surrogate, eh? Because fact is the only thing that Josh regrets about the whole incident is being caught ...he remains unrepentent and a world class a-hole....who thinks going on the DL means grabbing a tee time and views the fans of RSN as so many "Johnnies from Burger King" to coin a Foulkism....yet Bobby V has managed to reign in this jerk and other co -conspirators and thus far has turned chicken sht into chicken salad...

and all of RSN should have a beer to that! (Fried chicken optional)

...and the Gonzo move may have been necessity in dumba ss NL games but many a Manager would play it safe and sit Middlebrooks or send him down....give Bobby credit -I thought that was the intent of your thread here....dont dam him with faint praise ...he is turning around a toxic clubhouse culture -successfully to this point....not easy to do when dealing with overgrown overpaid adolescents like Beckett....Bobby has wisely enlisted the assistance of Big Papi who has the tenure and the cred to get in that a-holes face and read him the riot act....which is what is needed to change the culture....i.e. other players who will enforce rules and motivate the recalcitrants...the job Tek was supposed to do when wearing that "C" on his jersey last September...

Nah. IF the Red Sox finish the Season with over 90 Wins (and actually get in the Post Season again), then MAYBE I will credit Bobby some. As it is, he hasn't been an "upgrade" over Terry Francona yet this season.

I obviously agree with you about the chicken/beer/video game stuff and Beckett.
If Bobby really has reigned him in with the help of Ortiz and changed the total clubhouse culture, it is all for that good of the team/fans, everyone will be happy, there will be a continued sense of harmony on the team and the team hopefully will continue to do well.

Nobody is suggesting that Bobby is an "upgrade" over Tito...and ANY comparisons at this point are foolish....Tito was simply the best manager that this franchise has had in at least the last 90 years...the only one to bring not one but two WS Championships to Boston...

indeed it was the players themselves- a-holes like Beckett, Lackey et. al that brought about Tito's demise and Bobby stepped into a very difficult situation and has handled things quite well thus far...

I was against the Bobby hiring from the start. I still think he's an idiot, but if he can get the Red Sox to the Post-Season again (or at least finish the Season a few games above .500), I will accept him as "our idiot".

As it is right now, I can see him being axed by July.

Think Tony LaRussa is interested in moving to Boston?

Righto elysse...and winning cures all ills....the more they win the better their chemistry shall become as a unit....it appears that Bobby has done a very good job of setting expectations and then enlisting the assistance of highly respected players to do the clubhouse enforcement work...people like Papi and likely Peedy for example....wouldnt you have loved to be a fly on the wall at Papi's players only meeting when he called out the pitching staff...Beckett probably swallowed a wishbone...LOL

Lets not go overboard here. BV made one management 101 move and it was the right one. If Lin didn't catch the ball we wouldn't be talking about this. Right now, the Sox are winning with a bunch of over achieved second string players, which is great. How long can it last? We are about to fine out. On Atchison, well I think he his pitched well and he can eat up innings. If one of the starters gets drop to the BP then there might be a problem for him. The 40 man roster grindlock can only be fixed by DFA or asigning a player to the 60 day DL. All that aside, it's good to see the Sox play some long ball! Go SOX!

IMO, LaRussa is one of the most over rated Managers in baseball...he was able to spin a reputation out of George Will's book -a lap top manager who moves players like chess pieces may work in some venues but not the present state of the Red Sox... ...think about Larussa with the white sox...and be grateful for Bobby...LaRussa would not be a good fit with the mutinous clubhouse beer n chicken brigade....different horses for different courses...

If one is cooking filet mignon but adds an ingredient to it which shouldn't be added, the taste of the steak and overall dining experience can and will suffer.