Pineda hasnt been good since mid season last year.

Lets see, opponents batted .211 against him with a .279 OBP for the year so where exactly hasn't he been good? His velocity was there ALL year with the exception of the last start where it was down after he had had 10 days off. Oh wait, he pitched for Seattle who couldn't win no matter who was pitching so I guess that makes him no good since mid season huh?

The argument was Cashman should have known about the injury not about how good he has been.

I agree he needs to be asked about a declining numbers last year but not the injury.

thank god you ain't the GM.

Let's get some things clear here, shall we?

First , there isn't a GM in baseball who would not have made this trade. Not a one.
Second, The Yankee FO viewed Montero as a DH , not an everyday catcher. The most he will
be as a catcher is a 5 1/2. He is too young to be an everyday DH and he couldn't be converted
into a first baseman because of Teixeria . He is a bat and nothing else.
Third, The Yankees always do a very through examination on every player. Pineda was gone
over with a fine tooth comb by several of the best doctors. This is not the Mets medical staff. The
Yankees medical staff is top flight.
Fourth , Pineda has to take some of the blame here. He came into camp 20 pounds overweight and
out of shape. ST is not the time for a pitcher to lose the extra weight. This is not like the "old
days" when it was acceptable for a player to come into camp out of shape. Nowadays with the
money players are making they are expected to come into camp in shape.
During ST, the pitchers uses this time to build up arm strength and stamina , while with each
outing they increase their pitches and innings .
Pineda came into camp out of shape and competing for a spot in the rotation. He was over throwing trying to get his velocity back up and strained the right shoulder. This injury occurred
during his last throwing session. According to AL Lieter ( who had the same injury and it took
him 1 year to come back) , Pineda was over comprehending , trying to push it to get his velocity
and he overtaxed the other muscles in his right shoulder ,which caused the torn labium.

Cashman had nothing to do with this. You are still annoyed that he traded Montero . You would
still be gripping about this trade no matter what happened.

He's going for arthroscopic surgery to repair a slight tear. Maybe he comes back in 2 months and dominates. I'm guessing you don't have the medical background or the information to determine how serious this is.

3) Montero isn't exactly killing it in Seattle. And he still can't play catcher.

obviously , he is not a doctor. But, when they arthroscopic surgery , it is invasive . The recovery
time should be shorter. So unless he is doctor and has been called in by the Yankees to consul ,
he needs to be silent.

and you are right about Montero . He did have character issues that the Yankees were not
exactly happy with. That is not the Yankee way . And the league has caught up to Montero with
all the video now available to them now. Let's reserve our opinions on Montero. We have to wait
and see if he can now make the needed adjustments.

And Cashman's answer to you would be:

"That's why I got Campos thrown into the deal. I traded a DH only player for two young promising pitchers because pitchers are going to be a premium. By stockpiling young arms in our farm system, the Yankees are not forced into over-paying for pitchers like CJ Wilson."

This is just sickening to digest that we parted with our best prospect in exchange for this situation.

get over it

We could have gotten Roy Halladay, or Cliff Lee for him back in the day. So to me, it hurts because of the pitchers the Yankees could have acquired.

if you really believe that.,I feel sorry for you. That is sad.

As an aside, no matter what kind of pitching depth we have, I WOULD pay a ton for Cole Hamels if he became a free agent. He's pretty close to that CC level of being worth it, in my opinion.

"Okay, here's the explanation. I traded a young hitter with character issues for one of the best young arms in baseball. He got hurt. It happens."

"Perfectly stated! Glad to see that there are level headed posters on this board."

So showing up for camp for your new team, 20 pounds over weight and out of shape, is now a sign of "good character" according to you? Hard to believe you people are serious. You guys keep taking steps backwards defending your very weak position. Watch out, pretty you'll step right back off the cliff.

Keep being in denial. Keep believing Pineda will become an ace. Keep insisting Montero can't catch, in spite of what, one of the best pitchers (if not the best) in baseball says about him. In other words, keep living in your fantasy.

Boy, do you even follow this game? Maybe you should drop out of the conversation for lack of credibility. Montero hit two opposite field home runs in Yankee stadium in one game.

And .281, with more RBI than anyone on the Yanks not named Swisher, is NOT a slow start. Especially for a 22 year old rookie. OY!

I am not sure that Cashman made a good move. I say that because I had heard a couple of people say that Pineda had an attitude problem. Makes sense because I find it hard to believe that a team, even a weak hitting, need a bat team like the Mariners would give up a stud kid pitcher that they could build on with King Felix. Personally, I think that when Pineda came into camp woefully out of shape, that changes his mechanics and here comes the injury. Montero is never, in my opinion, going to be a decent big league catcher. He can hit, but the Yanks did not need another bat looking for ab's as a dh or pinch hitter. If Pineda works out, it will look like a steal but that possibility is at least a year away now.

Pineda was an All Star caliber pitcher in the first half of last year. Then the bottom dropped out and he stunk during the second half. Do you honestly think the Mariners would've traded him away if the 22 year old rookie continued pitching like a young ace?

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His W/L and ERA were worse. His WHIP was only slightly worse, his BB/9 and K/9 were actually BETTER... and his velocity was the same. His dropoff was fatigue-related, more mental than physical, and caused by lack of run support.

It's pretty well-documented stuff.

And yes, i think the Mariners would trade a star pitcher for a star bat... because they have a TON of arms... and no blue chip hitting prospects in their system.

And obviously... I was commenting purely on the initial speculation and the fact that his surgery was arthroscopic in nature, rather than open surgery.

Obviously now, a timetable has been released, and he's out for the year. So I was mistaken.

That said, I still wasn't as wrong as the guy who said Pineda needed fking Tommy John surgery.

Oof, you got me. He did that at home. Me and my bad memory.

But again... 18 games is not enough to build a case that his swing was "tailor made" for Yankee stadium.

And he's done nothing to dispel the notion that he's not a catcher.

Also... his .281 is on the heels of a 3/5 day. If we had this conversation 24 hours earlier, he was batting .254

Oh, and how many games has he caught this year? Five. Out of 17. So if he were here, would he be playing as much as he is in Seattle? Probably not. Because you have to wait in line to be the DH in New York, with Rod, Jeter, Tex, etc.

"Star bat"? This is Jesus Montero we're talking about, right? This isn't a young Yogi Berra. I just find it hard to believe that somewhere in the past several years of their futility they hadn't picked up a quality bat for the farm that was in the lower numbers of the draft.

Personally, I think that when Pineda came into camp woefully out of shape, that changes his mechanics and here comes the injury.
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Come on now. Lets not exaggerate things. He came into camp a little heavy.

And for all intents, Girardi and Cashman said he got his weight down to where it belonged within the first 3 weeks of camp. The organization wanted him to develop the change, he showed a willingness to do it. He seems like a generally good kid.

And I swear, I don't think some of you guys realize how easy it is for a guy who's 6'6"+ and 260 lbs+ to gain "20 pounds."

Sabathia broke camp around 265 last year, and by the end of the season, he was pushing 300 and I don't hear anybody whining about his "character issues."

give him 6 or 7 months, i had the same surgery, I'm 18 years old and got 90% of my velocity back after 6 months

Not saying the weight was it, I am saying to my mind, him coming into camp overweight showed a definite attitude problem. This is a 23yr old kid who just got traded from a team going nowhere in the near term to a WS contender and he comes in at 260. It is a pretty well known fact that he was "spoken to" by more than one of the veterans. Again, injuries happen and someone that big and strong generates a lot of torque on his arm, elbow and shoulder. We could have used him this year and if he had lived up to his billing, he would have been a welcome addition. Now we have to wait till next year to see if he can come back and be productive.
I agree with you on Sabathia, I think his weight is a real issue. Seemed to me he struggled at the end of the season and in the playoffs. That said, Pineda is not Sabathia and he needs to come to camp in shape.

"Star bat"? This is Jesus Montero we're talking about, right? This isn't a young Yogi Berra. I just find it hard to believe that somewhere in the past several years of their futility they hadn't picked up a quality bat for the farm that was in the lower numbers of the draft.

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I don't entirely follow where you're going here. Are you saying that I'm underrating Montero? Or overrating him?

He's definitely a star bat in the making. For me, I highly doubt he ever offers ANYTHING in terms of defensive value. And honestly, I don't think he's going to hit the ceiling that a lot of ther people expect, so without defensive value, he's replaceable. It's still a tough loss, especially with a kid that's been hyped so much for so long.