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    • man collins is the worst
  • 2/7/13
  • Gepett0

not sure how THAT is what you got from my comment

what you don't seem to realize is that ive always been critical of this team...but then im also optimistic about certain things...i can't be fit into a nice neat little box...i have never once identified myself as a koolaider...or a realist for that matter....

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  • 2/7/13
  • fargol

"collins has preached accountability for years but he doesn't really EVER back up that talk"

I would not expect him to do that with the media listening.

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  • 2/7/13
  • Gepett0

actions speak louder than words

accountability goes beyond what you do or don't say to the media....i didnt see it in his actions...the one time i thought i saw it, he went back on it a few days later

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  • 2/8/13
  • stearnsy12

but it's ever so easy for us,as fans,to talk about "accountability",and it's quite another for a manager who has to try to get the most out of his players to balance that with staying with a guy and showing confidence in him

honestly,if Terry was going to be a tough guy regarding accountability Ike Davis should have been benched and/or sent to the minors after the first half of the season but instead he put him out there every day and the guy had a much better second half....does Terry get credit for that?

with the second half David Wright swoon didn't he deserve to be benched if he was going to be held accountable?.....would that have accomplished anything positive?

Bobby Parnell should never have been used as a closer this year after his debacle as a closer in '11 if he was going to be judged on performance

Terry stayed with Lucas as long as he could before they decided to send him down...that IS an example of accountability isn't it?....the same goes for Kirk who tailed off dramatically after a hot start

and sometimes it's not accountability but depth that forces your decision making...who was going to replace Frankie?....Ramirez?...Rauch?....Elvin?...Acosta?

especially with our team's lack of depth and talent the past few years i don't buy the "Terry doesn't hold his players accountable" argument,the guy is mostly playing the weak hand he's been dealt up to this point

i think sometimes in their frustration fans want action taken for action's sake...but with every early season strike out by Ike and implosion by the pen there was no person more frustrated than Terry Collins

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  • To:All
  • 2/8/13
  • eastvisitr
The team just isn't good guys. It's not Terry. We went through the same stuff with Manuel. Are Terry and Manuel good or above average managers? Probably not. But you can only get so much out of a talent pool and the Mets are severely lacking. The good news is there's actually hope now with two top notch pitching prospects and a first class catching prospect. We basically have to hit their ceilings with all of them or at least 2 of them considering Atlanta and Washington's youth and depth but it's a real possibility.
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  • 2/8/13
  • 86kid

Don't hold back, tell him how you really feel ... Lol

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  • 2/8/13
  • fargol

"accountability goes beyond what you do or don't say to the media....i didnt see it in his actions...the one time i thought i saw it, he went back on it a few days later"

Accountability is in the eye of the beholder.

If you think Ike should have been benched, that doesn't mean terry wasn't making him 'accountable'.

What can the manager do, anyway? Bench everyone who isn't a good or great player? He has to field a team, and the only time I would ask for accountability is if a player is truly and consistently dogging it.

There's no such thing as "accountability" for players giving an honest effort. At least not in my definition of the term.

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  • 2/8/13
  • 86kid
While I think a part of what you say about the closer thing is reasonable, I don't know that you've taken into account the fact that many manager prefer not to communicate with their players via the media. What some managers say in the public eye, may be completely different to their private conversations with their players. Calling someone out in public might have it uses from time-to-time for some managers, but so does supporting them publicly.
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  • 2/8/13
  • bbyjean616

Lack of talent. Like I said...you can only make so much lemonade from lemons."

Then you cant give him credit for an outstanding job. Sorry but its doesnt work both ways. If you give Collins credit for the team over achieving two tears in a row up until June, then you have to give him blame for the team falling apart under him two years in a row after June. You cant pick and choose. Two years in a row now, after the FO showed they werent committed to helping the team win mid season and made no mid season moves, the team folded like a cheap suit and that falls on Collins. Its HIS job to make sure his major league team still plays like major leaguers. Sorry but if they lacked THAT much talent, they wouldnt have done as well as they have and then mysteriously stop being good half a season later. COllins is a poor leader, stubborn to a fault and an awful on field general. Regardless of how I feel, I just cant see how you can look at a team who won 72 and 74 games under this guy, see his awful bullpen decisions and lineup changes.... and say he's a good manager

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  • 2/8/13
  • nutz4pugs

Absolutely he must be able to deal with and communicate with the media, but lacking an ability to get his message across to the media won't in and of itself cause him to be an ineffective manager.

Dallas Green hated the media, hated them. Yet while he may not have been a success here in NY, he was successful elsewhere. Particularly in places where the media isn't the 24/7 circus it is in NY. That anecdote gives more credence to your statement that they need to be able to communicate with both the media and his players. At least in NY.

And you're right about Minaya. He was constantly the victim of unnecessary and irrelevent attacks about his speaking style. This didn't make him an ineffective GM, bad contracts did. However, if that was also his speaking style when talking in private with other GMs, it could very well have had a detrimental effect. We'll never know.

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  • 2/8/13
  • nutz4pugs

"Post a wally should be manager thread and watch their diapers swell with fluid!lol"

I just spewed coffee all over my monitor, thanks a lot!!

Too funny!!

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  • 2/8/13
  • jgrangers2
What we saw the first half of the season was a lot of things going incredibly right that were never going to keep up. Their rotation was great, they were ridiculously good in driving in runs with 2 outs and their best player was about as hot as anybody you'd ever see. And all that got them was on the edge of contention. This team's problem the past few years is that they have too many holes so that if anything goes wrong they're almost out of it immediately. You can't expect everything to go right so if that's what you require to contend, you're almost dead from the start. Once Santana got hurt and Wright started slowing down, we were dead in the water.
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  • 2/8/13
  • MetObserver

But, but, but, but that is all TC's fault. He should have prevented Santana from injury, he shouldn't have let DW try to do too much and backslide on his first half swing change. He should have had Dickey traded at the deadline because he should have know he would only go 8-5 in the second half.

Don't you understand that these posters can know all this and TC didn't so he is terrible and should be fired. NOW!

My God he mismanaged the bull pen. Wait all these guys and their sarcastic "bull pen is fixed" threads knew that the bull pen was just junk but they want a manager to pull miracles out of his .... I don't know where. Any move that he made that failed was totally his fault and those moves that worked out should be forgotten quickly like they did.

Hope this helps you to understand how bad Terry really is. (NOT!)

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Message 548156.77 was deleted
  • 2/8/13
  • KLake409
I really don't mind Collins except for the way he handles the pitchers
I mean ask yourself why after 50 years Santana was the first Mets pitcher to give up 6 runs in 5 straight games?, probably b.c Collins is the only manager to ever let a pitcher stay in 5 straight games to give up 6 runs (I mean he could have taken Santana out after only giving up 4 or 5 runs but no he has to let him stay in to give up 6 runs in 5 games, and he did that with other pitchers too (I think Neise gave up 8 runs in a game, he let Hefner comeaback and pitch after a 1 hour rain delay his first start and he gave up 7 runs, he let Batista pitch to Cano twice in close games in late innings (both times Cano hit moon shots) while he had Byrdak ready in the bullpen,
and he let Acosta pitch the 9th in of a 1 run game against the Phillies (ended up a 4 run inning),
so I just really don't like Collins handling of the pitcher, other than that he's not a bad manager.
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  • 2/8/13
  • nutz4pugs
Taking into consideration the bullpen they had last year, leaving Niese and/or Santana in for those 6 innings was the lesser of two evils. What options did Alderson give him last year BUT to go as long as feasibly possible with the starters. Whoever it was.
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  • 2/8/13
  • MetObserver
How many pitchers do you think he has in the bull pen? You want him to pull a starter after giving up a few runs early in the game so that you can over work the bull pen more. Why because the pen was so strong last year? Or do you try to give a pitcher like Santana every chance to work his way out of it.
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  • 2/8/13
  • jgrangers2
Watch any manager try to managed this team and this is what you get. Bad bullpen plus starters who don't give you length equals problems. That's the reality of the situation. And for all the people who complained that Byrdak needed to be used more, he still ended up with an injury directly resulting form overuse. I've said it before and I'll say it again; bad teams make bad managers.
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  • 2/8/13
  • ewok54

Before Collins took over, this organization was a laughing stock on the field. Every game somebody failed to run out a grounder or pop fly. Somebody threw the ball to the wrong base. They were not patient at the plate and did not move riunners up. Fundamentals was something the players had to look up. Remember our #1 prospect at the time, Fernando Martinez, hit a pop fly in his second game and never left the batters box and noone said anything.

Collins won't win manager of the year but his players play good fundamental baseball, are patient at the plate, they hustle and for half a year last year, were a surprise team. With no depth, key injuries, the worst bullpen in baseball, Bay clogging the lineup and no reinforcements, it collapsed. Remeber, his predessesor was very articulate, it was his players and his team that were dumb.

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  • 2/8/13
  • fargol

"I've said it before and I'll say it again; bad teams make bad managers. "

And I'll agree with that again.

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