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    • Omar Minaya is the reason we have d'Arnaud
Message 546527.64 was deleted
  • 12/19/12
  • TheChosen1

>>Omar minaya drafted krod and we lost our Draft pick. Anaheim drafted trout with that pick. Tell him I said thanks for that one too.<<

They didn't draft Trout with the pick from the Mets.

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  • 12/19/12
  • metsheart

from nj.com Feb 27, 2011:

http://www.nj.com/mets/index.ssf/2011/02/mets_coach_dan_warthen_has_bec.html


"Maybe they don’t want to worry about cautionary tales, to consider mortality before performing the violent, unnatural act of throwing a baseball.

Maybe because 1975, when Dan Warthen cradled so much possibility in his still-healthy left arm, is long gone.

“His time has come and gone as a player,” Dickey said. “He wants you to be who you can be. And that’s a big deal. That’s what makes him a great coach.” "





So maybe then you can explain why Dickey said such a complimentary thing about Warthen? AGAIN??

Ever occur to you that Warthen might've been talking about being "clueless" about how to THROW a knuckleball?? NOT that he couldn't recognize a good one when he saw it???

Ever occur to you that Warthen might've been JOKING w/ Carton or whoever???


Yeah. I got that Warthen & Minaya contemplated releasing Dickey. But they didn't. Maybe Warthen said they should give him another shot???



Again -- what's MORE believable?? Article written THE SAME DAY Dickey signed in Jan 2011?? After Dickey's ONE good yr his whole career?? When Warthen had NO incentive to claim he was the one that brought Dickey in?? Or articles written after Dickey's great 2011 season?? And 2012 season???


Edited 12/19/12   by  metsheart
Edited 12/19/12   by  metsheart
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  • 12/19/12
  • johnyringo
shut up dopey
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  • 12/19/12
  • metsheart
So you're saying straight-shooter Dickey would go out of his way to publicly compliment Warthen?? When Dickey could've just kept his mouth shut & said nothing at all?? Complimented the guy who publicly said in "every paper & article" that Dickey was "NOT a ML pitcher" & Warthen "didn't want him on the team"???

Stretches credibility to the point of contortionism!!!
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  • 12/19/12
  • metsheart
Just to be clear -- I am NOT a Warthen fan!!!! Personally I cannot understand HOW that man keeps his job!! He MUST have "something" on Wilpon. It's the only thing that would explain it!!

But that doesn't change the fact Warthen might've ACCIDENTALLY got something right w/ bringing in Dickey!!
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  • 12/19/12
  • murphstates

You really are completely off the rails. Which is more believable? Neither, because they're both believable.

Once again, I posted an article that details the step by step process of how Dickey was brought to the team with quotes, references, a complete timeline and anything else you could want. It has Minaya quoted stating that neither he nor anyone else in the organization had any expectations for what Dickey could be. Why would Minaya make that statement after the fact if he was trying to claim credit he wasn't due?

The McCullough article doesn't have any quotes from Warthen stating it was his idea to bring him in or that he undertook reviewing tapes of Dickey on his own, while the Wall Street Journal article states unequivocally that Warthen was ASKED to contact Dickey after the decision to recruit him had already been made.

I really don't know what your deal with this is. Is it somehow diminishing Alderson for you to admit Minaya was responsible for bringing Dickey to the organization? There is no longer any question of how it transpired, it's all right there and unrefuted by anyone. Why you insist on denying plain facts is curious.

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  • 12/19/12
  • JamesHetfi3ld

Most people around these parts like to deny the truth, and also reality.

I don't get it either.

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  • 12/19/12
  • metsheart
References the "process" 3 yrs AFTER THE FACT!!! When Omar's trying to grab credit for bringing in DIckey!!!

Why would Minaya say "that neither he nor anyone else in the organization had any expectations for what Dickey could be"? So he could look like a genius for ultimately being the one who decided to take a chance on a guy no one else wanted!!!





Mind explaining why straight-shooter Dickey would publicly compliment Warthen (TWICE -- that I found & I didn't look very hard!!) when Warthen supposedly said Dickey "wasn't a major league pitcher" and Warthen didn't want him on the team???

And mind explaining WHY Warthen would make that claim ON THE DAY Dickey signed his 2 yr contract w/ Mets??

Edited 12/19/12   by  metsheart
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  • 12/19/12
  • metsreef
"Expect the part where he trades dickey for soriano".....underrated post sir
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  • To:All
  • 12/19/12
  • johnyringo
Omar was a great scout...he knew nothing about everthing else it takes to win
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  • 12/19/12
  • murphstates

Number one, I never said Warthen made those comments about Dickey, nor did I claim he didn't want him on the team.

Why would Dickey compliment his pitching coach? Gee, I don't know, maybe because he was a member of the coach's pitching staff. Can you give me some quotes from pitchers bad-mouthing their current pitching coaches so I can compare?

Here's a link to the McCullough article, http://www.nj.com/mets/index.ssf/2011/01/analzying_the_mets_two-year_co.html

Can you find me the quotes in which Warthen says that it was his initiative to contact Dickey and recruit him?

Here's a couple excerpts from the Wall Street Journal article. Please provide the evidence to refute them from the McCullough article.

"Minaya, a former scout for the Rangers, was familiar with Dickey, the Rangers' first-round draft pick in 1996, from their shared time in Texas. When Dickey became a free agent after the 2008 season, Minaya asked pitching coach Dan Warthen to review video of him."

"Adam Wogan, the Mets' director of minor-league operations, asked Warthen to make a recruiting call, as Warthen occasionally does with minor-league free agents."

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  • 12/19/12
  • metsheart

"Why would Dickey compliment his pitching coach? Gee, I don't know, maybe because he was a member of the coach's pitching staff"



Couldn't Dickey have just have said NOTHING?? Has Dickey ever shown himself to be a phony???
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from the McCullough article written the SAME day Dickey signed 2 yr contract (Jan 2011):

"First, let’s consider what the Mets hope Dickey could become.

Dan Warthen played with knuckleballer Joe Niekro. He coached another, Steve Sparks, in Detroit. So he trusts his understanding of the pitch. When he watched video of R.A. Dickey last winter, he saw a pitch that “each year, it was getting better at Triple A.”

Warthen called Dickey to recruit him to sign with the Mets. He was impressed by “the history, the age of a knuckleballer, the maturity, seeing that in the video that I watched over the winter. You realize that this guy has a special pitch and he knows how to do it.”

Both team officials and Dickey trust that the pitcher will progress after this season."




What part of Warthen saying when he watched video of R.A. Dickey last winter, he saw a pitch that “each year, it was getting better at Triple A” & Warthen saying he was impressed by “the history, the age of a knuckleballer, the maturity, seeing that in the video that I watched over the winter. You realize that this guy has a special pitch and he knows how to do it” seems unclear that he thought Dickey had good potential??? Saying that AT THE TIME Dickey signed the 2 yr contract!! When Warthen had no incentive to lie to try to grab credit!! When Warthen actually stupidly opened himself up to be the scapegoat if Dickey turned out to be a dud for $7.8M!!!
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The WSJ article is YEARS AFTER THE FACT!!! People's memories so long after the fact aren't as accurate as THE SAME DAY Dickey signed his contract!!! YEARS AFTER THE FACT when they want to take credit for something they can skew the facts to make themselves look good!! Or make stuff up!!! Both Omar AND minor league operations director Adam Wogan!!!

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  • 12/19/12
  • murphstates

You are a piece of work. You do realize that Warthen's comments in the article written the day of the extension are his recollection of what he thought years earlier, right?

Once again, where does it say anywhere that Dan Freaking Warthen was the initiator of the decision to sign Dickey?

Why is it so important to you to you to deny Minaya credit for something he did?

Maybe R.A. genuinely liked Warthen. How does that have anything to do with R.A. signing with the Mets? If Warthen was the key factor in bring Dickey to the organization, how come Dickey signed with Minnesota in 2009 when Warthen called to recruit him?

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  • 12/19/12
  • metsheart
Warthen had NO stake in re-writing history when he made those comments in Jan 2011 THE DAY Dickey signed that 2 yr contract!! Like I said -- Making those comments then Warthen STUPIDLY opened himself up to potentially be the scapegoat if Dickey turned out to be a $7.8M dud!!!



Why is it so important to "deny Minaya credit for something he did"? Because Omar's part in bringing Dickey to the Mets was MINIMAL!!! And he's trying to grab credit AFTER THE FACT!!!
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"If Warthen was the key factor in bring Dickey to the organization, how come Dickey signed with Minnesota in 2009 when Warthen called to recruit him?"


from wsj article:

"Dickey turned down their offer of a minor-league contract and took the same deal with the Minnesota Twins, the team that had signed him a year earlier."




Major league deal vs minor league deal. Every player out there would take major league deal.
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  • 12/19/12
  • murphstates

We have now have multiple articles detailing how Minaya was responsible for bring Dickey into the organization, including the Wall Street Journal piece which is by far the most detailed and definitive.

Nothing in the McCullough article provides any substantive information on who initiated contact with Dickey. We do know however, that Minaya had a long-standing relationship with Dickey dating back to their days in Texas while Dan Warthen didn't know R.A. Dickey from a hole in the wall.

Minaya's role was minimal? Fascinating, is Dan Warthen giving out contracts?

The deal Dickey signed with Minnesota was also a minor league deal.

Here's a Dickey quote from the WSJ article on why he signed with the Mets:

"I wanted to go where I knew someone knew my makeup and knew what I was about," Dickey said.

Who do you think Dickey is talking about? Was it Dan Warthen? What's more likely, that he was referring to Dan Warthen who he had no relationship with or Omar Minaya who he remained friends with over the years? Do you think Dan Warthen 'knew his makeup and what he was about' from watching film and talking to him on the phone?

Once again, you've taken this to the point of absurdity in an effort to diminish Minaya.

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  • 12/19/12
  • metsheart

Believe Omar's YEARS AFTER THE FACT re-write of history if you want. Omar made no claim about bringing Dickey in when Dickey signed that original minor league contract. Or even after Dickey's terrific 2010. Only YEARS AFTER THE FACT when Dickey's the toast of the baseball world suddenly Omar's claiming he was the mastermind behind Dickey's Cinderella success story!!

I'll believe Warthen's comments from THE DAY Dickey signed that 2 yr contract. After Dickey's ONE good yr to that point (5.43 career ERA before 2010). That most people including Bill James thought was a fluke (James predicted Dickey would regress in 2011 & have 4.44 ERA). AT THE TIME -- when Warthen had NO stake in trying to grab credit for bringing Dickey on board. Comments which stupidly could've opened himself up to criticism/ scapegoat if Dickey turned out to be a $7.8M dud!!
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Omar "gave out contracts." Meaning he was GM so he was the one that got the player inked. Doesn't mean he was the one that recognized the player's talent & potential in the 1st place!!!
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Article says Minaya was "familiar" w/ Dickey from their time in Texas. Where's it say Omar & Dickey "remained friends"??? And if they WERE friends why'd Omar have WARTHEN call Dickey??? Not call Dickey HIMSELF if they had a "relationship"???

Once again you've taken this to the point of absurdity to try to help your hero Omar re-write history to make him seem MUCH better than he ever was!!!



from wsj article:

"In early December 2009, the Mets offered Dickey another minor-league deal. Warthen called him again. And for a few weeks, at home in Nashville, Tenn., Dickey mulled his options.

Though he had several minor-league offers, the choice came down to the Mets and the Toronto Blue Jays, whose pro scouting director knew Dickey from his previous job in Texas.

"I wanted to go where I knew someone knew my makeup and knew what I was about," Dickey said.





Isn't it more likely Dickey was talking about Warthen?? Who he'd already spoken to several times?? Including the yr before???

Or possible Omar developed "relationship" w/ Dickey AFTER Warthen brought Dickey's talent & potential to Omar's attention??


Edited 12/19/12   by  metsheart
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  • 12/19/12
  • metsheart
P.S. -- The way I think it works w/ MLB pitching coaches is he gets handed a stack of videos of minor league pitchers who are available that offseason & reviews them. If coach thinks there's someone worthwhile he brings it to the attention of GM. Maybe that's not 100% how it works. But it's probably pretty close.

That's what I think happened w/ Warthen after 2008 season. Dickey signed major league contract w/ Twins again vs minor league Mets contract for 2009. Warthen then contacted Dickey again after 2009 season when Twins sent him down (aritcle you posted said so!). Dickey mulled over Toronto or Mets minor league contracts. Chose Mets for 2010.

Funny -- now Dickey winds up on Toronto after all!!
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  • 12/19/12
  • murphstates

Please provide one piece of evidence from any article that Dan Warthen had anything to do with finding Dickey.

This is the most pathetic attempt to worship your golden calf Sandy Alderson that I've ever seen. If anything, Minaya goes out of his way to deflect the credit for finding Dickey, repeatedly stating he had no idea what he would become.

But keep sticking with the BS as usual. You take an article that makes passing reference to Dan Warthen having a peripheral role in recruiting Dickey, but you dismiss a far more in depth story specifically written to detail Dickey's saga. An article with direct quotes from Minaya, Warthen and Dickey. But please provide the proof for your claims and I'll happily concede.

By the way, since we're dismissing facts to manipulate history I decided that it was Dan Warthen who deserves all the credit for Dickey getting an extension from the Mets. After all, McCullough's article doesn't mention Alderson having anything to do with the process so I can only conclude he deferred to Warthen's genius and acquiesced to resigning him.

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  • 12/19/12
  • murphstates

"No, I do not think I am in denial. In my heart and soul, I believe I am getting progressively better as a knuckleball pitcher. I believe I can be a positive, contributing member of a big-league pitching staff. If you want to look at my history and argue otherwise, that’s your prerogative. Go ahead. But I know my pitch and I know myself and I know I am getting better. I just need one more chance. Will any team give me a chance? My agent’s phone rings. The caller is Omar Minaya from New York. “We’re interested in talking to you about R.A. Dickey”, Omar says."

R.A. Dickey from 'Wherever I Wind Up: My Quest for Truth, Authenticity and the Perfect Knuckleball'

Over and done.

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