Incidentally...in 2010, the Rox won 83 games with a team batting average of .263. In 2011, their average dropped to .258 which resulted in a loss of 5 games in the standings. Meanwhile, the Giants had a team batting average of .251 in 2010, but dropped to .242 last year... a much larger swing, but resulting in a drop of only 6 games in the standings. Should we assume that Timmy's supply of weed to the team has a more significant affect on their overall performance than the humidor? Both are, of course, ridiculous assertions. Correlation is not causation, and in this case, there isn't even substantial enough correlation to suggest that closer regulation of the humidor had any real signficant effect on the team whatsoever. On the other hand, two lengthy injuries to Cargo, a slow start by Tulo, a late season collapse by Huston Street, season long injury problems in the starting rotation, season long problems with performance in the bullpen and a change in batting coaches clearly swamp all other prospective factors.

So, another one has stumbled up the stairs to emerge. I haven't jumped on anyone's page. I post on the page of a team of whom I am a fan. Unlike you trolls I don't jump on other fans' sites inciting argument and innuendo. I find certain things hilarious also. But really who cares. Again, if you all find your happy place on other fan's sites I can't help infuse passion for your team. You have to do that all by your lonesome.

I know it's hard to root for the giants without baseless controversy involving other teams but I think you all can do it if you really try.

It's pretty simple really..

The same reason you like to discuss the Rockies with Rockies fans, is the same reasons some Giants fans enjoy discussing the Rockies, or the Giants, with other team's fans..

There are always going to be fans that post on different message boards. We have regulars from the braves, phillies and even a dodger fan or two that posts on our boards as well as others..

Nothing wrong with it, it's just fun banther between teams and fans..

You can't control it, so you can either ignore it, or not. But getting mad, attacking others, then calling THEM losers is just sad.

BTW, \I lived in the Estes-Allens park area for 7 years in 90's and travel back 2-3 times a summer to see games there. LOVE the atmosphere at Coors, been to well over 100 games there and have had numerous great conversations with knowledgeable rocks fans at the games and have a ton of respect for Tulo and Cargo and the very underrated fan base you guys have.

Your post reeks of defeat. I presented my case with stats and facts and all you could reply with was irrelevant nonsense and insults. You are clearly finished in this "friendly" debate.

Saturn, the point wasn't about the amount of improvement on the road, that isn't necessary for my case. The point is that they played at the same level on the road, while regressing profoundly at home. It perfectly coincides with the humidor monitoring. My point was also challenging the claim that the Rockies were just a much worse team last year. How much worse could they be if they improved their road record? This is something I would expect to be really easy to understand.

The regression at home was, as I demonstrated, statistically insignificant. It is also swamped by other factors, such as the significant number of games Cargo missed as the result of injury and the decline of effectiveness in the pitching staff which was the result of several injuries, the complete collapse of performance with the closer position after a strong start and a season long problem in the bullpen which is related directly to personnel changes. There isn't a single factor you can point to statistically that requires or even suggests the bullpen as a relevant factor...not one. You are not only grasping at straws, you don't have a single point of solid evidence to even suggest a gram of strength to your case.

Well sure, if you completely ignore what I'm saying, it makes it easy for you to say I have no case. So all those things you mentioned didn't take effect on the road? Was Gonzales not injured for road games? If they were so bad, why did they IMPROVE on the road? How many times does this need to be explained to you?

They were unstoppable at home, with incredible home records. At the same time, they were a losing team on the road. They start monitoring the humidor and instantly they are a losing team at home just like they are on the road and their road record stays about the same, while their home record plummets. How can you not understand this?

I'm not lobbying for everyone to believe the Rockies were tampering, I'm pointing out that it's not out of the question despite how much you guys don't WANT to believe it. There is evidence there that is more than just a coincidence.

The reason that these highly intellectual and philosophical discussion are moot is because for all of the stats that baseball produces, there is no stat nor the sum of any stats that can account for the human element. Instead of using the real facts of direct investigation that revealed no tampering, you insist that there is a possibility that the facts are in fact a lie. The fallacy arrives when you develop a hypothesis that defies fact and instead support your hypothesis with hand picked stats. Furthermore using past results to indicate future events is a highly improbable venture in baseball. Age, injury, personnel, finances all play a part in the human element that I mentioned above. There is no one intelligent answer to the question, "Why has the Rox's record changed over the past ten years?" Any attempt to provide such an answer would be speculation, which pretty much shreds your silly insinuations.

You are correct, I have no hard proof, nor did I ever claim that I did. However, there is statistical evidence that perfectly coincides with the monitoring of the humidor. These are not "hand picked stats", they are the W-L record over 324 games. I could go further back too, and that will go along my point as well.

"Instead of using the real facts of direct investigation that revealed no tampering"

Just because a crime isn't proven, doesn't mean a crime wasn't commited. It doesn't mean it WAS commited either. See my point?

Bottom line is that the Rockies experienced declines both at home and on the road last season, and they were statistically identical. You can whine about the humidor till the cows come home for all I care...your argument becomes increasingly silly as you try to preserve it. The simple fact of the matter is that every other factor easily explains why the team declined last year and the decline was not strictly a home phenomenon. You can not produce one statistic, not one, that supports your case. You are advancing a silly, unsupportable argument.

It's like talking to a brick wall.

The thing is, is that there was no wrong doing. W/L record alone doesn't tell any stories. Your stay use only further proves how weak your point is. To be consistent with your logic you could say that lil Tim's pitching has fallen off since he stopped toking.

Trying to point out your lack of credible logic is also like talking to a brick wall.

If you are seriously looking for "winrockies", he has jumped on the Dodgers band wagon and posting on their board under the moniker "koreman1". He's been there for a while now. And yes, he's still the same, telling other fans that they are not "real fans", and trashing other team's visiting fans especially giants fans and other NL west fans, ect.

I doubt that.

I don't know man, check him out over on the Dodger board. It sure does sound like him.

I have interacted with him a few times about Bryan Stow. I simply do not think it could possibly be the same person.

Interesting.

This Fan has something to say. That is all, for now.

Any updates?

Too bad he is not around anymore.