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    • One of many 2012 Reds previews
Message 70982.7 was deleted
  • 2/19/12
  • pogwilliey

I don't know of a great many successful managers who aren't traditionalist in some sense of the definition. Jonny B. may be on the far wing, but he doesn't manage all that differently than most of the MLB managers that I'm familiar with.

pog

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Message 70982.9 was deleted
  • 2/19/12
  • crosley58

Yes, I think coaching makes a difference. If you see a team like the Yankees whose whole lineup takes a lot of pitches, works the count, shortens up with two strikes, etc., I think you're looking at an organizational philosophy. Maybe some of the Reds (Stubbs?) just can't shorten up or something, but I'm inclined to think they aren't being told to. Actually some of Stubbs' problems in the leadoff spot may have had to do with him trying to work the count and not being very good at it, so he may have been trying and may have been getting coaching on it.

Crosley

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  • 2/19/12
  • pogwilliey

Feller named Joe Morgan was renowned for his disdain for statistics of almost every stripe, as I recall. Might be why he never got a shot at managing? You have to wonder how he would have done in Bakers place.

pog

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Message 70982.12 was deleted
  • 2/19/12
  • trs72
I tend to think Stubbs attempts to work the count but is not very good at it. He seems to take good pitches and swing at bad ones. If my memory serves me correctly it seems Stubbs with 2 strikes chased a lot of outside pitches and also watch a lot of 3rd strikes. I hope he has worked on improving and everything clicks this year, he has all the tools to be a star.
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  • 2/19/12
  • pogwilliey

No doubt about Morgans stats and accomplishments, but I was referencing his outspoken comments as a sports announcer when the stat geeks reared their heads.

Having said that, I'd love to hear both Baker and Morgans opinions of wOBA. I have a feeling both of them would play a different tune when THAT particular stat comes into play.

pog

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  • 2/19/12
  • Mikey_D
I tend to side with Morgan. Baseball has been around for a hundred and thirty years or so. All that time people have tried to distill the successful formula down to one reliable statistic. They've never been able to do it. The game is too complicated. I'm not anti-stat, just realistic. No stat is a real predictor of future results.
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Message 70982.16 was deleted
  • 2/19/12
  • pogwilliey

WAR is so passe' this year. For 2012, we worship at the altar of wOBA.

pog

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Message 70982.18 was deleted
  • 2/19/12
  • 6thsense
That is first time I have seen the full quote Dusty made and he's right. It's no good getting on base if you don't score. That's what that quote means, plain and simple.
  • Reply to this Message
  • 2/19/12
  • 6thsense
Now Pog, you know better. Dusty, just being a reds manager, is plumb dumb. No matter that everyone else manages similiarly, Dusty is dumb to manage that way.
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Message 70982.21 was deleted
  • 2/19/12
  • 6thsense
I downloaded Cincinnati website on my phone and I read a completely silly blog by someone who said that bunting wouldn't help Stubbs much. Joe Morgan was a prime example of what getting on base did for his team. It was almost an automatic double and he was usually in scoring position for Perez, Foster, and Bench.
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  • 2/19/12
  • 6thsense
That's the way I read it.
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  • 2/19/12
  • Mikey_D

I don't want Stubbs bunting much. Having said that, the ABILITY to bunt would help him more than acutally bunting because the mere threat would reposition infielders and change the way the pitcher works him.

But I'd put the point of diminishing return at around two bunts per month. Anything more than that is hurting him.

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  • 2/19/12
  • 6thsense
I think bunting more will do nothing but help him in many ways. Sabermatrics don't understand that. Bunting will help improve his hand-eye coordination, pull in fielders creating more holes in the defense and getting on base. Plus, with his speed, getting on base will be like hitting a double. This is one part of Dusty's managing I have trouble with. He needs to send more runners. The reds should run like gazelles this year.
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