Not a bad lineup at all....I do understand the lefty- lefty thing as it has far more to do with late-inning antics and forcing an opposing manager to utilize more pitchers/ players at the same time by splitting lefty/righty. Most lefties in the BP are specialists and most are pretty good at getting lefties out for the most part as there just aren't that many lefties out there..

My thought on the flip to that , though, is that if your 2 lefties batting back to back is your best lineup (not saying it is for the reds) then maybe you score far more runs in innings 1-6 before it becomes imperative in late innings and your not involved in as many tight games late.....

absolutely.
i like the idea of hanigan in the 2-spot, as well... and i think before someone threw out the idea of pulling a larussa and putting cozart in the 9 spot, pitcher bats 8th - with hanigan in the 2-hole, i kinda like the thought of that. maybe for a game or 2. ;)

strictly speaking with the roster we have, mind you...

but i think we need 1 more real hitter to get serious about putting our boots to the division - whether its a table-setter or a power guy doesn't really matter to me, but we need one or the other. a power guy and we can move brandon back where he should be, a table-setter and i think we can live with brandon behind votto, so long as brandon sticks to concerning himself with simply driving in runs, rather than driving the ball outta the yard.

Yes we need one more real hitter. Haven't had a proper leadoff man in years.

It would not matter to me to have 2 lefties batting 3 and 4 in the lineup.
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it would not matter if Bruce were not so danm inconsistent.

And therein lies another issue......Any manager in their right minds even with a lefty pitching would happily walk Votto, and his over .300 average against lefties, to get to Bruce...

i honestly don't see anyway to improve the lineup with the current makeup of the roster, and i really see no need to.

the offense is #1 in June, even with the nagging injuries requiring Valdez to get extra playing time.

IMO, moving Hanigan out of the #8 spot would be a big mistake. he is very comfortable/successful there. partly, again IMO, because he gets challenged more often with the pitcher following him. that would change if he hit somewhere else.

I agree with that. Jay Bruce's batting average is not going to scare any pitcher. When he's on he's great but he's so darn streaky. We need someone like David Wright batting behind Votto ;)

It would not matter to me to have 2 lefties batting 3 and 4 in the lineup.
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it would not matter if Bruce were not so danm inconsistent.

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You mean the same Jay Bruce who is on pace to hit about 50 HRs? No, that wouldn't cause any pitcher to worry about walking Votto with a runner on second.

Or, actually, the Jay Bruce hitting under .180 w RISP??You do see how it can work both ways and you, of all people, should not be enamored with the home run totals with your outward disdain for Dunng..After all, Bruce hitting 40 plus homers and the 100 RBI's, along with a feeble BA w/RISP and 2 outs with RISP might mirror exactly what the big donkey did minus 40 pounds..Just saying what everyone knows about Bruce.....Great player when hot 4-6 weeks a year, average to below average player when cold the other 20 weeks..

No, that wouldn't cause any pitcher to worry about walking Votto with a runner on second.
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YOU ARE CORRECT

especially when he's in one of his 1-25 streaks

I agree with you that, given our personnel, the batting order can't be massively improved.

However, unlike you, I would be quite interested in trying Hanigan at #2.

I completely see your reasoning as to why he might not match his success there...but the dude is such an OBP machine compared to the rest of our guys, I think you've gotta give it a try.

Tell DB that then.......He tinkers with lead off/ 2nd/ 6-7, etc multiple times, trying to find the right combo/mesh......When you have the best hitter in MLB both leading off an inning as many times as Votto has done this year and coming to bat with bases empty( somebody posted a crazy number) then that's a huge detriment in resources and clearly not good utilization. IMHO, the most important hitter in the reds lineup is the 2 hitter...He's got to produce and protect...

I certainly understand our personnel is what we have but if the aspirations are a division championship, and beyond, then something will need to be done to generate more consistency. I'll guarantee one thing that like all GM's, 24/7, WJ is working the phone lines to improve...

Yeah for instance 1st inning Votto has come up with 2 outs/bases empty about 60% of the time.

Meaning that 1-2 in the order, in that situation at least, can barely even COMBINE for a .400 OBP

yep.........Again, I understand it is what it is and part of the reason they've played so well is because our best 1-2 hitter in BP has been excellent in the 4 hole. And I don't think we need to do alot but Cozart is hitting presently what I thought he would.....Getting on base a bit more..Just need to find a guy who can wield the bat better in the 2 hole with going the other way/ hit and run/run and hit,etc.........I know Baker would love to do more hit and run but you need a couple things to happen: guys getting on base and more contact/less whiffs...I actually believe both of those things are getting a little better but that dag gone Votto just had to become the best hitter in MLB pretty much....lol

Just to give the updated and exact stat. It has SLIGHTLY improved (by 4%)

Votto has come to the plate in the 1st inning 37 of 66 times (56%) with 2 outs/bases empty

I'm alright with Cozart at leadoff for now although he still needs to work on that OBP, but I really want to try Hanigan in front of Votto.

Good stats Lou.....I'm wondering on the 44% how many times we've only had a guy at 1B when he's come up? Again, a solid 2 hitter gets on base, moves runners over in multiple ways, etc..Not easy to find but our own Wilson Valdez had a heck of a few games in the 2 hole and it was no coincidence the results. Not giving him the starting CF job by any means but sometimes the answer lies right under our noses, as in Hanigan.

Since you asked, courtesy of b-r play index...

Like I said, there were 2 outs 37 times (56%)
1 out 21 times
0 out 8 times

Bases empty actually 38 times (so obviously there was a HR involved to clear the bases before he came up)
Runner on 1st 10 times
Runner on 2nd 9 times
1st and 2nd 5 times
Runner on 3rd 4 times

That's a total of only 33 baserunners, and only 18 in scoring position.

And Votto has hit .400 in the 1st inning (22 for 55) including 5 doubles and 5 HR, plus 11 walks.

So if you get more guys on, he's going to cash them in.

Incredible stats....Appreciate it....

Another impressive but depressing Votto stat from baseball-reference

The MLB average player with 287 plate appearances has had 172 runners on base

Meanwhile Votto, in 287 plate appearances, has had only 165 on base for him...that's in spite of batting in the 3-hole where you're supposed to get decent chances.

And yet, he's still driven in 45 instead of the average of 30 for someone with 287 PA.