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    • Braun will not be suspended!!
  • 2/24/12
  • Buckyball

<<There seem to be a lot of knee jerk reactions to this. >>

guilty as charged...

I'm a cynic when it comes to the PEDs. They're still using them. Should we care? NO, we should allow them to use them in a controlled way, IMO. I think athletes should be allowed to use hGH under controlled conditions. Steroids? No. We cannot allow a culture of chemically destroying bodies for entertainment. Otherwise... it's become the same as the War on Drugs in America.... a symbolic battle.

What else? Set rules... okay, fine. Rules have as much substance as we grant them.

Does anyone here REALLY think Manny Ramirez had just started using when he was first caught? Come on now.

We're going to be having this debate forever, basically.

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  • 2/24/12
  • BewareOfTheShark

I don't know if Braun is guilty or not, but I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt because of the circumstances surrounding this particular drug test. Plus, his numbers last year aren't drastically different than they have been in the past.

PEDs in baseball really bother me and I think anyone who says there is no evidence that they can actually enhance performance are kidding themselves. Now I'm not saying they can make Sam Fuld into Matt Kemp but they certainly seem to be able to make an already skilled hitter even better.

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  • 2/24/12
  • TitanofTestosterone

Braun's press conference tomorrow should be interesting. I hope he goes over every detail, and explains everything. This is really his only chance to get his image back, so hopefully he hits a homerun. He claims he has nothing to hide, so lets here the details and see how innocence he is.

Wouldn't it be something if it comes out that the guy who collected the sample and took it home was the same guy that leaked the positive test to espn? That would save Braun's image very quickly.

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  • 2/24/12
  • santo1010

hey ryan how exactly was there an extreme amount of synthetic testosterone found in your urine?
thats the answer i want to hear. i'm sure he has some lawyer robotic response for that question. if he does blame it on a medical condition and some sort of medicine then:

1. tell us what the condition was
2. don't tell us the condition and then raise more doubt
3. don't tell us the condition and we'll know u either took a ped or have herpes. either way fans will get get in your head about it.

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  • To:All
  • 2/24/12
  • santo1010
i hope the media actually has a good chance to ask in depth questions. i fear that it might be a one sided type of press conference. where we hear more statements than actual answers
Edited 2/24/12   by  santo1010
  • Reply to this Message
  • 2/24/12
  • Buckyball

<<Plus, his numbers last year aren't drastically different than they have been in the past.>>

And why would they be, if he had used in the past also?

<< anyone who says there is no evidence that they can actually enhance performance are kidding themselves.>>

Agrrede

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  • To:All
  • 2/24/12
  • ageofthecubs
What a surprise! I might've known there would be some 'loophole' allowing a star ML player to continue to play. I don't know the 'ins and outs' of it all but i doubt we're ever gonna completely 'clean' this wonderful game up of ours, the players won't allow too much testing, it's not in their best interest......all the while the 'game' suffers!
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  • 2/24/12
  • Shamster

Sounded like the arbitrator ruled in favor of Braun and MLB is not happy. Don't be surprised if the 3rd party arbitrator having that much power received a nice sized monetary gift from Braun under the table days / weeks in advance to improve the odds his way.

<http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/7608360/milwaukee-brewers-ryan-braun-wins-appeal-50-game-suspension
"Sources said MLB is livid and is evaluating the possibility of suing in federal court to have Das' decision overturned"

Edited 2/24/12   by  Shamster
  • Reply to this Message
  • 2/24/12
  • ageofthecubs
This is all bad for the 'game', there are players walking around now who know they more than likely can't be touched by any 'drug laws'. Again MLB has to explain itself over how it intends to move drug testing forward, we've gone 3 steps forward and taken 4 steps back over this issue!
  • Reply to this Message
  • 2/24/12
  • Shamster

This is all the players union. Of all the major sports, MLB players union hold a lot of power.....

There is no need for a 3rd party arbitrator. Fail a test, face the consequences, the end.

Edited 2/24/12   by  Shamster
  • Reply to this Message
  • 2/24/12
  • ageofthecubs
Agreed, the players should have a voice but they now wield too much power, they have the power to cancel a whole season and a WS (1994) and we'll welcome them all back again with open arms because as much as we lemming fans are disappointed, we love seeing the game too much, it's not ideal!
  • Reply to this Message
  • 2/24/12
  • garers

No, we SHOULDNT yell "Heerpes! Heerpes!" to Braun. Let Philadelphia and New York have jerky fans.

I'd like to think Cubs fans have class and respect other players.

From what I've read, Braun was legitamately innocent, he defended himself, and won.

Good for him!

And shame on you!

  • Reply to this Message
  • 2/24/12
  • Death_by_wattage

"That's not what happened though. The collector took the sample home, which is against the mlb policy, so that automatically makes the sample invalid. Not only did he take it home he stored the sample wrong for 48 hours, then shipped it to the lab. Going by policy the second the lab saw the dates they should of threw the sample out and requested another sample from Braun immediately."

um no it doesnt, and read the protocols, the protocols allows for this

http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/02/23/was-there-really-a-violation-of-chain-of-custody-protocol-in-the-ryan-braun-ped-case/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

"Braun’s argument during his January appeal in New York City was that the courier who collected his urine made a number of against-protocol moves after leaving the testing area. But were mistakes really made?

The courier did not immediately head to a FedEx Office after collecting Braun’s sample in early October because it was late on a Saturday night and he figured the store would be closed. Braun (or, rather, his lawyers) argued in January that the courier’s action was against policy, but the MLB-MLBPA joint drug agreement states that “specimens cannot be placed in a FedEx Drop Box” and the five FedEx Office locations closest to Miller Park don’t keep their doors open past 9 p.m. on Saturdays.

Also, none of the FedEx Office locations in the Milwaukee area ship items out on Sundays. So instead of handing the sealed cup of urine to a FedEx Office employee at some point Sunday and hoping for the best, the courier followed the terms of the MLB-MLBPA joint drug agreement (see pages 37-39) by storing Braun’s urine sample in a refrigerator at his residence until Monday morning, when FedEx could finally get the shipment to the appropriate testing lab in Montreal.

The MLB-MLBPA joint drug agreement fully allows for temporary storage by couriers — people who are trained and paid to handle drug test samples, and do so often — as long as the specimen can be “appropriately safeguarded,” kept in a “cool and secure location,” with “chain of custody intact.” A refrigerator in the private residence of a trained professional would seem to fit that bill."

For those who want access to the actual Chain of Custody protocol in the MLBPA's agreement with MLB, here it is: http://mlbplayers.mlb.com/pa/pdf/jda.pdf

Here's the statement on FedEx drop boxes:

"When all of the specimens have been collected at the collection site, the Collector shall take the specimens in the appropriate packaging to a FedEx Customer Service Center for shipment. The specimens cannot be placed in a FedEx Drop Box location. "

And the requirements for if the item can't be shipped right away:

" If the specimen is not immediately prepared for shipment, the Collector shall ensure that it is appropriately safeguarded during temporary storage.

1. The Collector must keep the chain of custody intact.

2. The Collector must store the samples in a cool and secure location. "

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  • 2/24/12
  • jabloomf1230

"Sources said MLB is livid and is evaluating the possibility of suing in federal court to have Das' decision overturned"

Well, that's about the stupidest thing that has come out of the Braun case. Bud sets up this whole goofy drug-testing process and when it doesn't work out the way he wants it to work out, he's now going to sue? Maybe MLB should sue itself.

All that aside, it is not a rarity that the so-called "chain of custody" defense works. It works in criminal trials with DNA testing and other forensic evidence. I have even seen it work first hand in my own work. We take a lot of environmental samples (test borings, soil samples, etc.) and there have been instances where the firm was sued for professional malpractice over a construction project. The prosecuting attorney just goes over all the sample handling QA-QC stuff, plus the record keeping and all that he or she has to do it to find one discrepancy and harp on it to the jury. If the glove don't fit, you must acquit.

Braun may have been innocent or he may have just gotten lucky, because of the sloppy way that his "specimen" was handled. We'll never know.

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  • 2/24/12
  • Shamster

Braun may have been innocent or he may have just gotten lucky, .........
----------------

I prefer to think the 3rd party arbitrator holding that much power became rich over night. He had plenty of incentive to make his decision.

If you read that link and other news sites, this wasn't the first time a player attempted to question how the evidence was handled. The PH change was done as well in the past to no avail.

Shyam Das got paid off, end of story.

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  • 2/24/12
  • jabloomf1230
Watch out for those pigs flying low over the grassy knoll.
  • Reply to this Message
  • 2/24/12
  • Shamster
Take your rose colored glasses off. Greed and corruption don't just happen in politics....
  • Reply to this Message
  • 2/24/12
  • jabloomf1230
Oooh, rose-colored glasses make my blue kool aid look purple.
  • Reply to this Message
  • 2/24/12
  • chad1983

You are really stupid if you believe that.

If it were true, MLB would've offered a heck of a lot more money than Braun (considering how livid they are). The test was funky; he tested with twice the level of testosterone that anyone has ever tested. That alone should be a red flag.

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  • To:All
  • 2/24/12
  • returnofstevefitz

Reports not saying Braun said he'd do a DNA test, but when MLB started considering it he changed his mind and said forget it. Like anythign else involving steroids, mlb AND Selig, this is slimmy and dirty.
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