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    • A. J. Burnett has been traded.
  • 2/20/12
  • jimcanuk

i think the point is that the trade is essentially a cash sale, since the prospects the Bucs sent the other way are nobodies

there is already a precedent that selling players to another team is not permitted....

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  • 2/20/12
  • hard9fan2

i'd have preferred the 13mil be spent on the international FA market, but the FO didn't ask me. there is risk both ways, AJ rebounding / failing, or the international signing(s) flopping.

since i endorse pit consolidating their mlb talent back to the top 100 prospect level, i hold hope AJ shows worth as a future trade chip.

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  • 2/20/12
  • grant77

Someone's afraid of the Pirates catching up to the declining Cardinals...

Huntington has a decent, perhaps .500 team, in the weakest division in the sport. It's hard to blame him for making a couple of reasonable win now moves, especially in that market.


Edited 2/20/12   by  grant77
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  • 2/20/12
  • hard9fan2
i suppose that's tongue in cheek, otherwise it's a really weak reply.
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  • 2/20/12
  • grant77

Not really.

Given recent history and the lack of talent in that division, you could take it with 87, 88 wins. That's unlikely, but not out of the question for the Pirates. They are already investing heavily in amateurs, so it doesn't hurt to give a short term boost to their chances for nothing but money.

From a less logical sense as well, Pirates fans deserve to see some investment from their owners and deserve to see a competitive team.

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  • 2/20/12
  • borders24

I thought that article was ridiculous, turns out so did NBC Sports. Mr. Griffin got a whole post to him self about what a <moron he is.

http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/02/20/the-burnett-trade-should-have-been-voided-what/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

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  • 2/20/12
  • hard9fan2

"Someone's afraid of the Pirates catching up to the declining Cardinals..."

typical homer approach. if stl and pit are both in the 2012 LCS, i'll be pulling for the bucs, my birds have spoiled me in my lifetime. although i'll admit, i can't lose either way.

i've been a pit fan since roberto won his mvp. i idolized him as a child, and have been a bucs fan since. but don't believe me, ask the pit MB. and while you're at it, ask them if i am a regular in the bucs GT's. "afraid" = the opposite of my reality. i am a huge bucs fan, anyone on the stl MB can confirm that also.
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"Given recent history and the lack of talent in that division, you could take it with 87, 88 wins."

recent history has 96, 91, 91, 97 winning the central. we go back 5 to 10 seasons back, you'll find some high 80 wins taking multiple divisions. there was a time in the past i could agree with that high 80's scenario.
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"That's unlikely, but not out of the question for the Pirates."

pit needs to pitch like 2010 frisco, and make some huge deadline acquisitions to the lineup, to have even a very outside chance of winning the central.
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"They are already investing heavily in amateurs, so it doesn't hurt to give a short term boost to their chances for nothing but money.

i'll disagree there, unless AJ rebounds and becomes a valuable trade chip. a short burst is a half-azs attempt at pretending to contend, and pretending to rebuild. i prefer all in, on the rebuild.

NH has a handful of talent at every level. until he consolidates, the bucs are pretending.

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  • 2/20/12
  • grant77

I figured you'd be overly defensive of your terrible division. The Blue Jays are a good example to look at, obviously more talent than every team in the NL Central and 4th place. Good on the Cards for winning it, I hold no ill will towards them for taking advantage of it and it was something else to watch a mediocre team pull it together like that in the playoffs.

I've always said, a team can NOT rebuild by losing 100 games every year. Bringing young players up into that environment is just a recipe for disaster. Teams like the Orioles and Pirates have had plenty of young prospects, but they bring them up to a terrible D, pitching staff getting bombed, weak lineup. If they get a little respectability on the big league team, even just 70,75 wins, the youngsters are going to do that much better. Notice how nice it was for the Jays to bring up Brett Lawrie and let him hit down in the lineup on a winning team instead of desperately sticking him in the cleanup spot, just an example. Adding a guy like Burnett is just what they need. He helps the team now, gives them more time to develop young pitchers, and has no impact on the future.

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  • 2/20/12
  • hard9fan2

i just gave you the win totals. the only opinion voiced is yours, and recent history didn't apply to well, eh? back 5 to 10 years, i will agree to that scenario.

no club turns over a roster as well as stl. the 06' and 11' championships had 4 players in common on the w.s. rosters ;)

you can talk trash about the central and stl declining all you like. heck, i'll help......you forgot "stl won't contend without wainwright" and "stl will never get past the philly rotation". oops, "tex has the best lineup in baseball!", poor stl ;(

philly, ari and tex fans will probably be willing to help you bash stl/central too. all losers have an alibi. just win baby! just win!

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  • 2/20/12
  • grant77
There are 6 teams in the Central, not one. Like I said, good for the Cardinals for squeaking into the playoffs via a horrible division and doing well once they get there. It's a good organization and the championships are well deserved. Denying the brutal competition you face is foolish, however. If you can't make a simple talent evaluation, then this conversation is really pointless.
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  • 2/20/12
  • hard9fan2

it's pointless because you believe tor has a better roster today than any team in the central. i'm letting you off the hook ;)

but hey, i'm the visitor to this MB. i know the calvary is reading every word i type *wink*, and i have two other discussions in progress, elsewhere. this is nice filler though, even if it's not realistic.

here, i'll let you carry the torch a while........sum up the current top 10 tor players by war for 2011, that are coming to ST. now sum up stl. and here's a cookie, give wainwright the war total you see fitting for 2012.

i'd be interested in your findings.

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  • 2/20/12
  • grant77
If I'm not mistaken, Toronto and St. Louis played a series last year if you need some more evidence. Those findings might be more interesting.
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  • 2/20/12
  • hard9fan2

4 games decides a season, gotcha.

top 10 wars? i won't blame ya if you steer clear of that one.

normalize them to 600 PA's and 200 IP, would be more accurate, as rv600 and rv200 does, then convert to wins. 100 IP for relievers if you need to include them for tor.


Edited 2/20/12   by  hard9fan2
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  • 2/20/12
  • reedjohnsonfan
Not sure about the Jays being better than both Cincy and St. Louis. I think it might be close.
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  • 2/20/12
  • hard9fan2

we'll see what grant has to say ;)

i'm somewhat undecided when i see SP's come to the NL central from the AL. garza held his value as an example, but greinke and marcum didn't show much. maybe i'm just remembering the postseason when they were meat throwing BP. of course, what would either know of postseason ball? i guess they flamed out.

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  • 2/20/12
  • hard9fan2
one guy i was not impressed with was cj wilson. maybe he was better during the reg season, but not impressive as a staff ace in the w.s.
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  • 2/20/12
  • Sir_BJay
He actually slowed down quite a bit near the end of the season and it carried into the playoffs. Mostly his command was off during that stretch, if he gets that back, he'll be fine.
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  • 2/20/12
  • hard9fan2
i could say the same for lohse, garcia and jackson. it's a different critter in october when everyone is working on fumes. that just makes carp's 270 IP last season so special. what a BULLDOG!
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Message 79485.59 was deleted
  • 2/20/12
  • reedjohnsonfan
I think you would agree that Lawrie projection is a little off.
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