How many top prospects did the Padres draft, sign, and develop into studs at the MLB level over Moores entire tenure as an owner?
Yeah! Exactly! I am sure the Bush fiasco was just an anomaly too, wait, that happened before the divorce, ah s=crew it. BTW...How much money is that OMNI hotel and JMI realities raking in these days? Hmmm! I hear it's a big pot of gold!
Drink up Johnny! It's free and it's purple...Yum Yum!
I agree....and to think he gets accolades from some fans and people in the media still.
It's truly unbelievable!
John Moores is a complete snake oil salesman rip-off artist. Just look at Peregrine Systems and the Padres here in San Diego and then how he cheated his high school sweet heart wife after 40 something years of marriage....they guy is a complete LOSER!
He only has two concerns himself and his bank account and everything else is fair game. He bought the team for what $85 million....and look what he's walking away with, and don't forget about the Omni Hotel and the surrounding Petco Park properties he got in a sweatheart deal after trying to bribe a councilperson. Let alone the $400 million in stock money (amazingly cashed in) right before the company took a dive.
I very much disagree with him being a good owner.
He tried hard, he failed miserably. Pumping tiny amounts of money into the MLB payroll does nothing for the club if all it gets you is Jim Edmonds. you need in their prime talent to win the big one and the ONLY way we'd have been able to do that with our club resources was by very smart drafts and trades.
moores' refusal to do the SMART thing is what makes me call him a bad owner and I don't mean that with any sort of venom. you can try hard and still be bad at something. this was moores. he tried to do something that was not only impossible, but frankly kinda stupid and he didn't use the tools and resources available to him to properly construct a team. ppl wonder why i'd be willing to deal with junk teams, well...reason why is i know that with our resources we're going to have to make some oddball and risky moves trading away some talent in order to continually refresh the system. moores should have been doing that and his failure to do so and invest in the draft/scouting put this club on it's knees
i won't get into his business practices bc i don't really know much about them, but on a personal note, i'm very thankful for the moores cancer center.
in the context of the padres, he did some good, but made some pretty bad decisions. not a good owner.
his investment in the community, especially as he isn't even from sd, is very nice. like all things, it's a mixed bag. he's low on my list of evil, high on my list of bad baseball owners.
Im putting his philanthropy endeavors aside, whether they were associated with the team or something else. The Cancer Center and the ballpark at SDSU, have nothing to do with the onfield product at PETCO Park, thank you very much. And there are some relatively shadey reasons why Lucchino didn't stick around...its not like the relationship between him and John was a bowl of cherries. Had it been, Larry's still here, yes?. So, lets cool it with how "buddy, buddy" they were.
Everybody on here knows EXACTLY how I feel about the guy. He started slashing payroll, THE YEAR AFTER THEY MADE IT TO THE WS, DUDE. Its not supposed to be that way...if anything, an owner is supposed to be able to ADD to the payroll.
On his watch, you can name less than a handful (and thats pushing it) of players who came out of this minor league system and made a noticeable contribution to the big league club...THATS INEXCUSABLE on ANY team, let alone this one. And the guy's been here since freakin' '94/95?.
He made statements to the fanbase thru the press (because God knows he never really had the sac to say it to their faces) that this team would be more than competitive, essentially...and for the most part that was not the case.
A division title is what it is, but personally, I wasnt proud of the 2005 team that made it to the LDS...that team went into the playoffs, blind, crippled and crazy, with nothing to fend off a REAL offense and pitching staff.
Nor was I all that amped about the one that made it in 2006. That team was pretty flawed as well, and watching John Miller and Joe Morgan call those games, was as excrutiating as watching the team itself, because they spared no feelings, as it related to how offensively inept the team was...they sounded completely exasperated, with how we struggled to string hits together.
2007?...a team of vets that could've done much better if the owner had manned up and really made a legitimate effort to get a bonafide bat and another arm to help the team down the stretch. We could have and should have done better than Milton Bradley and Tomko.
2010?..Miggie and Ludwick was nice, but what was kinda creepy to me is the fact that the Padres stayed on top of the heap for almost the entirety of the season (and INCREDIBLE feat for a young team like that one was), before falling flat in the last month or so, AND THERE WAS NOT ONE STATEMENT FROM MOORES ABOUT HOW PROUD HE WAS OFTHE TEAM...Moorad was "running the show", but that did not mean that Moores could not have said something to encourage the boys. He made no locker room appearances, that we know of...Center never mentioned anything like that happening that year.
Again, I could care less about a Tony Gwyn stadium..or the retirement ceremony he gave Tony..or the extension he gave Jake..or how he doted on Trevor, Caminiti and Adrian....I could even care less about his efforts to get PETCO built. What was he gonna do?...can the plans to get the place built, and risk the team moving to DC, again?...
My focus lies with, all the he DID NOT do, once the team moved down town. And my memory is not shot. He did VERY LITTLE, to enhance the on field product, and his history, SINCE DAY ONE shows him to be an owner that hamstrung the scouting/development department, left and right, with no apparent guilt about doing so. And he blew off reporters/journalists who called him to the carpet on being that way...and he chopped off a head or two, because of being called out, as if everybody was supposed to ignore the proverbial elephant in the middle of the room.
And he got away with being that way, in large part to his team residing in a city that has always flown below the radar.
If John Moores had owned the Red Sox or the Yanks or any team of note, and had been the same kind of owner he's been in this town, Im thinking that him and his family would've been on the receiving end of an unprecedented wave of criticism and 'name calling'. The likes of which cannot be ignored or blown off.
He grew distant from the team, as early as 2005 (no wonder, when you consider who lame that team was), when the team had not been in the damm ballpark 5 minutes...we barely saw him at ANY games..and he knew when he had the place built that he had no intentions of paying significant money to keep marquee hitters here, hence the size of the place.
And I wont even go down the whole "Bush/Weaver/Verlander" road, and where we ended up in that scenario. And even if we had drafted Verlander, he'd be long gone by now.
To put it as bluntly as I possibly can put it, NO, JOHN MOORES WAS NOT A "GOOD OWNER"...not by a damm site.
"Moores did mostly good as an owner until the divorce.. then everything went downhill.. when he couldn't do anything without the approval of Becky and the lawyers.. i think he just gave up.. and then lost the passion for baseball.. not good for anyone.."
he "gave up" long before that divorce, sorry.
"I very much disagree with him being a good owner.
moores' refusal to do the SMART thing is what makes me call him a bad owner and I don't mean that with any sort of venom. you can try hard and still be bad at something."
...thing is, Stuck?....I dont think he tried all that hard. And thats kinda scary, dude. I guess it depends on what your definition of 'tried' is.
given the state of our tv deal, the added expenses from the lawsuits over petco and the overall market, i think i'd have to give him some wiggle room. i just think his method was flawed.
payroll did go up after we moved into petco and to get to the 70s isn't bad at all. i look at the rays where the owner apparently said that at 63 million, their payroll no longer had space to wiggle the very season that they were the defending al champs. now it's not a perfect comparison, bt the pads weren't defending nl champs and had a payroll in the 70s with some wiggle room.
he should have used his economics degree and bought low on superstars in the draft. strausburg is making 3million this season. that said, he chose to buy to try buying low on mlb players in the hopes he could sell high or at least get some dividends and all he got was an ulcer.
"payroll did go up after we moved into petco and to get to the 70s isn't bad at all. i look at the rays where the owner apparently said that at 63 million, their payroll no longer had space to wiggle the very season that they were the defending al champs. now it's not a perfect comparison, bt the pads weren't defending nl champs and had a payroll in the 70s with some wiggle room."
..and this is where a lot of us, kinda miss the boat. My feeling about when the payroll went up, is this: I would rather he had kept the payroll in the 60s or where ever it was, than to gip' scouting/development/drafting, the way he did.
I kinda feel like, what good is it to raise payroll, as well as ticket prices, when you really have nothing significant coming thru the minor league pike? (shrug). I would rather he invest money in the farm system. And Im not just talking about those kids in the Dominican academy. Im talking more about what we should have been seeing in Portland/San Antonio/Peoria, yrs ago.
i 1000000000000000% agree with you. i'd rather it be in the 50s and 60s if need be in order to flly fund and operate a top level scouting and drafting operation. that was our only real hope for success. with enough wins, the fanbase will build up.
so he made bad moves, but that doesn't mean he didn't try hard. he tried really hard to succeed in a dead end area is all.
so if he tried hard in a dead end area, what would Tampa say to that, huh?..see what Im saying?. At some point, we have to STOP covering this dude's backside and call a spade a spade, dude. Tampa tried hard to compete, too...but they were always outmatched by the other teams in their division, like us for the most part...so the ONLY way they could fight back was to do what they had to do in drafting to get the Longorias and the Prices and a Shields and a Crawford, etc.
Im not beating a dead horse as much as Im saying I almost wish that the Padres had been in the AL East, where a John Moores wouldve been forced to improve the ENTIRE franchise, wayyyyyy sooner than he did. And if he hadnt done his due diligence in that division, he would've been forced to sell the team a lot sooner than he did.
If you go to the WS in 1998, you dont start slashing payroll, THE NEXT DAMM SEASON, DUDE!..Im sorry, you just dont do that, with the expectation that the fans will go along with that and keep buying season tickets...its just not smart business. And as my Gramma would say, "thats where he tore his underwear!"
they wold point and snicker at us as they did it right. somehow you have to get talent and the rays figured out the way for small market teams to do it.
now we're trying it the right way. it took the rays ten years of misery before their first playoff appearance. not even moores did that to us.
slashing payroll after the ws was part coincidence and probably part necessity. he had to spend to get to the ws, wonder how much he had to spend. then there were the stadim considerations. i dnno how it is for most teams, but i would think many slashed some payroll to gear up for a new stadium. ours happened to be voted on in the year we went to the world series.
Field I tend to agree with you I have stayed out of this discussion for that reason
This was a thread that had nowhere else to go than exactly what it has gone - this is about as polarizing of a topic as this board can have
I was pleased at first that no one was responding to it so I thought perhaps it would just die out - but deep down I knew that the factions would eventually square off
There is little if anything to be gained by analyzing it right now as he is days from being out the door -
So I am far more focused on waiting for the news about the plans and direction of the NEW owners... we all know exactly what Moores DID and DIDN'T do.... it is well documented - no one is going to change anyone's opinion on the guy...
I guess this thread is something to do to fill the time while waiting for the new owners - But I don't think that come August 16th a magic wand will be waived over the franchise and the city and ALL PROBLEMS ARE SOLVED
The new owners can't help but be heroes for a couple of years - but let's see how many LOVE the owners in 5 years - Hopefully it's everyone here... but that's seldom the case - I know Maverick's fans who HATE Cuban... LOL
Well, let's see. Buys the team in 1994 and has 7 winning seasons in 19, 4 Division titles and one WS appearance. Prior to his owning the team they had 7 winning seasons in 25, 1 Division title and one WS appearance. Additionally he, despite setbacks, was successful in moving the team into a beuatiful new ball park.
On the downside he cut payroll and put a lousy team on the field from 1999 to 2003, but I don't think that was all his fault. Presumably if Petco had not been delayed payroll and on field production would have risen sooner. He also cut payroll and put a lousy team on the field, most of the time, after his wife filed for divorce. I'd cut him some slack for that, but I can understand if others do not. The sale to Moorad was a disaster, but I blame MLB for that. If the owners didn't want Moorad, they never should have allowed the process to begin. Also, despite being a beautiful new ball park, it doesn't produce enough offense to satisfy many fans.
To me the good far outweighs the bad. I'm a bit shocked some people are judging him on individual player transactions such as Edmonds. Those are FO decisions. If you'd like, blame Moores for not hiring a good GM, for not giving enough budget to the draft or to payroll, big picture things, ownership things, but don't blame him for poor FO/GM decisions. Those aren't his job.