"I'm thinking from a competitive standpoint. The Rox would never be able to have any FA pitchers sign there with that bandbox of a stadium and the DH."

In fairness, the humidor has made it not much worse than Chase Field out in the thin Arizona air.

"The days of Scott, Doran, Ashby, Niekro, Richard, Hatcher, Dierker, Biggio, Bagwell, and Oswalt are over."

Of course they are, heck only one of those guys is still even an active player. What's your next revelation; the sky is blue?

"I respect that. Even if we come in last the next 10 years, getting rid of the dead weight fans is worth it."

It was just sarcasm. I really dislike the AL move, but I'm certainly not going to stop being an Astros fan over it. If someone else is, that's their choice, but they should expect backlash when they jump on the forum to whine like a little child instead of just quietly moving on with their lives.

"Don't worry. He'll be back."

That's what worries me.

Ah. My bad.

"No, Selig said "move to the AL West or you don't get to buy the team." MLB did everything but hold Crane's family at gunpoint. People who are actually blaming Crane for the AL move are either ignorant, bitter, nuts or some combination of the three."

Selig was the kidnapper, but some of us have issues with those, like Crane, who make kidnapping profitable and thus encourage kidnapping.

Selig should be removed as commissioner. Instead, he was rewarded. Thus the tyranny is strengthened.

"Selig was the kidnapper, but some of us have issues with those, like Crane, who make kidnapping profitable and thus encourage kidnapping."

So if someone has their kids kidnapped they should refuse the ransom because getting their kid isn't worth potentially making other people think kidnapping works?

The funniest thing about this thread is the people who are acting like KevinBass hasn't always been a <retard.

People who think Crane's weakened position due to the debt structure being over MLB limits, MLB lending money to the Astros to complete the sale, and his backing out of the 2008 deal have nothing to do with moving to the AL move are either ignorant, bitter, nuts or some combination of the three.

If someone like Mark Cuban had offered $650M in cash for the Astros and insisted on the team remaining in the NL, the Astros would not be moving. Cash buyers have more clout.

"Not if the guy had the money"

That's kinda the point though, obviously Crane was willing to offer more than any other suitor.

"If someone like Mark Cuban had offered $650M in cash for the Astros and insisted on the team remaining in the NL, the Astros would not be moving. Cash buyers have more clout."

You don't seriously believe that, do you? The other owners and the MLBPA wanted the move; it was happening, regardless. If the Crane deal fell through, Drayton would have approved the move to get in Selig's good graces so he wouldn't hold up a future sale. If Cuban or whoever else you want to pull out of the air had made the offer but refused to have the team move, MLB would have simply denied him the right to buy the team. Maybe you don't realize just how much power MLB has over these situations; 100%. MLB and the MLBPA both wanted the same thing for this time, and they weren't about to let a small-market fanbase's wishes stop them from accomplishing "the greater good."

"On top of all of that, I really don't consider myself a Texan anymore, as it is full of religious idiots and racists."

SO! As a Texan, I am a religious idiot and a racist? I find that statement quite ignorant and offensive as I am neither.

"MLB and the MLBPA both wanted the same thing for this time, and they weren't about to let a small-market fanbase's wishes stop them from accomplishing the greater good."

The Astros aren't a small market team.

"SO! As a Texan, I am a religious idiot and a racist? I find that statement quite ignorant and offensive as I am neither."

That's exactly how kevinbass wants you to react to that statement.

And a "You don't seriously believe that, do you? back at you. How do not believe that someone with advantages in negotiations would not get something better than someone negotiating from a point of weakness? I believe that when Selig told Crane that if he wanted to own the team, he had to move it to the AL that it was pointed at Crane. Selig could have said something along the lines of "MLB will not approve the sale of the Astros to anyone who will not move the team to the AL" but he narrowly addressed the situation at hand: $80M down, $300M held by 50 investors and banks, and $300M held by MLB, plus Cranes previously backing out of a deal with Drayton and the his generally poor EOC reputation.

"So if someone has their kids kidnapped they should refuse the ransom because getting their kid isn't worth potentially making other people think kidnapping works?"

Taking principled positions is not without great cost. Getting your kid back by paying ransom would endanger many others because of your weakness.

"The Astros aren't a small market team."

We are as far as the old guard is concerned. Most people in New York, Boston, LA etc. see is as barely above a AAA team in terms of importance. If you think for one minute the population of our city makes them think twice about trampling all over us for the benefit of the century-old teams, you're wrong.

"Taking principled positions is not without great cost. Getting your kid back by paying ransom would endanger many others because of your weakness."

You must be joking me. If someone kidnapped your son/daughter and called you demanding ransom, you'd answer "sorry, some other people might find out about that and it just might make them turn into kidnappers when they wouldn't have otherwise, and that's just not right, so you can go ahead and <rape my kid and then blow their head off?"

"How do not believe that someone with advantages in negotiations would not get something better than someone negotiating from a point of weakness?"

It had nothing to do with that in the first place. MLB was going to insist that the new owner move the team regardless, and would veto any sale to an owner that didn't agree to that upfront. Crane just happened to be the most interested party. Blaming him is silly, especially since there was no one else and, even if it had been, MLB would have hit them with the exact same unflinching demands. MLB gains relatively little from the sale of the Astros to a new owner, but it gains much from they're agreeing to switch to the AL and balance the leagues. MLB had no reason to approve the sale to anyone who wasn't willing to give into their demands.

"You must be joking me. If someone kidnapped your son/daughter and called you demanding ransom, you'd answer "sorry, some other people might find out about that and it just might make them turn into kidnappers when they wouldn't have otherwise, and that's just not right, so you can go ahead and <rape my kid and then blow their head off?"

This is difficult for those who believe the world revolves around them and then they're dead. The concept of self sacrifice including your children for others is a Christian concept which runs through both Old and New Testaments. Abraham offered Isaac, though God stepped in and provided an alternate sacrifice. God himself offered up Jesus for us all.

It is anathema for those who cannot see beyond the carnal. God is still in control, not me.