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    • Would you trade Wheeler for Wil Myers straight up?
  • 12/7/12
  • DFAB

"The SF Giants won 2x in the last 3 yrs because of? pitching. to trade Wheeler is mindless idiocy"

To be fair, they didn't get their right away with the Lincecum/Cain combo. Why? Because they had a horrific OFFENSE. Pitching wins in the playoffs but you need offense to GET you there.

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  • 12/7/12
  • CHOOin2014

YES

YES

YES

YES

YES

YES

YES

Myers is the next Evan Longoria.

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  • 12/7/12
  • Moses0507
Yeah Wheeler is the next Clayton Kershaw.
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  • 12/7/12
  • dejavu1

Thats like asking "would you trade your left hand for your right hand"?

It'd be best if you had both together.

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  • 12/7/12
  • bbjmparis

Neise is a good #2 type guy. He might be #3 on a killer staff, like Sid Fernandez was, or a #1 on a mediocre staff. We don't know how good Niese can be. He's already good, 13 wins for the 2012 Mets, a team with no offense, no defense, and an awful BP is pretty impressive, and, he's still getting better.

Harvey and Wheeler are question marks. Wheeler the bigger of the two. You say they CAN be top of the rotation guys. Sure, they could. They could also be Ollie Perez.

No way I'd trade a good major league player for a lottery ticket.

Wheeler for Myers is a fair deal. If you need hitting more than pitching, which we do, you make it. Both Wheeler and Myers have a roughly equal chance of success, and an equal chance to flop. Despite what the "trade everyone for prospects" crowd believes, most of them do flop.

I hate the Yankess, but you have to be pretty dumb to not realize they are the most successful franchise in baseball. They are in the playoffs every effen year. Their fans have become so arrogant that the regular season means nothing to them. "It's all about the post season" Now, I'd like us to have the same sort of success. That means we do what they do. When's the last time the Yankees traded a very good player for a prospect? What they do is trade prospects for good proven players. Sign a top free agent or two every year to replace an older guy, and win, and win, and win. Occasionally the prospect turns out to be better than what they got. Usually not.

That's what we should do, but no, with the Wilpons we are the KC Mets. We use the small market team approach, and will get KC results. If I want to see minor league baseball, I'll go to a Cyclones game. I shouldn't have to watch it at Citifield.

Occasionally the prospect

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  • 12/7/12
  • metsheart
Pitching (almost) Always Wins Championships. That's a FACT!!

You can NEVER have TOO MUCH pitching!!!
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  • 12/7/12
  • Matt H
Most top 10 prospects do not flop, compared to just any other prospect in the top 100. If your comparing Wheeler and Fulmer (both look like great prospects) there is a better chance Wheeler will not flop and Fulmer will. Both Wheeler and Myers look like good bets, but Myers is probably is still less of a risk due to he is a hitter and is the #3 prospect in baseball, and proved himself at Triple A.
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  • 12/7/12
  • metsheart
"Pitching wins in the playoffs but you need offense to GET you there"



OAK scored 713 runs
TEX scored 808 runs (almost 100 runs more)

...But OAK won ALW by 1 gm over TEX!!!



CIN scored 669 runs (only 19 runs more than Mets but 23 more wins!!)
STL scored 765 runs (almost 100 runs more than CIN)
MIL scored 776 runs (over 100 more runs than CIN)

...But CIN won NLC by 9 gms over STL!!! And MIL was in 3rd place/ 14 gms out!!



CHW scored 22 more runs than DET. CHW failed to make the playoffs. While DET was AL Champ.

AZ scored 14 more runs than SF. COL scored 40 more runs than SF. AZ & COL watched playoffs on TV. While SF won WS.




Pitching will get you a lot farther than you think.

(But you do need SOME offense)

Edited 12/7/12   by  metsheart
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  • 12/7/12
  • Matt H
We lost way too many games last season by one run or so because of our offense, and then we lost many games last year because our bullpen blew it. It seemed like most games were tied for a long time or were one run games. Just look at Matt Harvey, he pitched brilliantly when he was called up and was still 3-5. Pitching does win games though.
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  • 12/7/12
  • Moses0507

You can find hitters on the open market, you cannot find Good Pitching.

its that simple.

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  • 12/7/12
  • Matt H
Well, what outfielders are on the open market that would benefit the team. Mets have surplus in pitching, and no outfielders. More players are becoming pitchers now. There is a theory that in the 90's there were many top hitters and no good pitchers so people pushed to become pitchers creating more good pitchers today then good hitters.
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  • 12/7/12
  • Moses0507

WAIT.

Next offseason is going to be much better.

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  • 12/7/12
  • Kranesback
I agree on the importance of pitching, but Wheeler has yet to throw a mjor league pitch, and people are acting as if he's Tom Sever, Bob Gibson, and Nolan Ryan rolled into one...and I agree that you need as many arms are as reasonable, but if you recall,in the early 90s we had Gooden, Cone, Viola, Darling, Fernandez, and Ojeda in the same rotation and won nothing.
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  • 12/7/12
  • metsheart

"We lost way too many games last season by one run or so because of our offense"



You could also make a case that those same gms were lost because of BP. Mets had 19 BS & 29 BP losses.

See my post from an earlier thread:

http://www.forums.mlb.com/n/pfx/forum.aspx?sr=y&msg=545254.29&nav=messages&webtag=ml-mets

"Mets had 22 one-run gms scoring 4+ runs (10-12):

9 1-run gms scoring 4 runs:
Record w/ 4 runs: 4-5 (.444%)

13 1-run gms scoring 5+ runs.
Record w/ 5+ runs: 6-7 (.461%)

10 one-run losses scoring 4+ runs. Means Mets pitching gave up 5+ runs those 10 gms. Any team scoring 4+ runs should have winning record for those gms."

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  • 12/7/12
  • metsheart
"in the early 90s we had Gooden, Cone, Viola, Darling, Fernandez, and Ojeda in the same rotation and won nothing."



Shows you can NEVER have too much pitching!!!!
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  • 12/7/12
  • Matt H
And then our rotation in 2006 included an old Tom glavine, a injured Pedro Martinez, Steve Traschel, Kris Benson, Oliver Perez and won the division with Jose Reyes, Paul Lo Duca, Carlos Beltran, Carlos Delgado, David Wright. Though our bullpen was an obvious strength too.
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  • 12/7/12
  • metsheart
Need good SP AND BP to compete. Mets already have good SP. If they can just get AVERAGE BP & just SLIGHTLY more offense I think they can hang in WC hunt into September at least. LAD scored 13 LESS runs than Mets this yr but had 12 more wins. Dodgers only missed playoffs by 2 gms (LAD = 86 wins / STL = 88 wins). LA in WC hunt til just days before end of season. CIN scored just 19 more runs than Mets but had TWENTY-THREE MORE WINS!!

Mets had 29 BP losses/ 19 BS. 2nd worst MLB BP ERA (Mets BP ERA = 4.65 / MIL BP ERA = 4.66). If Mets could've won just over 1/3 of BS -- 7 gms (all winnable gms w/ BP coming in w/ lead) -- they'd have been .500!!! WITHOUT adding offense!!!
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  • 12/7/12
  • Kranesback
We had pretty much the same pitching staff in 1968 as in 1969. What happened?
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  • 12/7/12
  • Moses0507

And look why we didn't win.

Suppan pitched like Cy Young and Trachsel and Wagner Stunk.

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  • To:All
  • 12/7/12
  • manor182
So..Back to the Myers discussion. Any chance that Niese plus gets it done? If so, who do you think the prospect would have to be?
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