<<< two seasons away from having the ability to win the division
How do you know this????? Can you predict the future or something? It is absolutely IMPOSIBlE to predict what a team will do in two years... especially in baseball.
After the 2006 season... did you think the Phillies would own the division while the Mets would not make the playoffs since then???? Yeah... that's what I thought.
Some people are good at certain things, but poor at others. Omar's problem was never his eye for talent. He just didn't seem the have a wide array of skill sets to be a very good GM - a GM in New York.
Drafting talent is one thing, but having the organizational skills to build a developmental system to hone that talent into major league plays is a whole other story.
It is like being able to buy a top line stereo system, but playing it through low end speakers. It doesn't matter how good the stereo is, if you can only output the sound on poor speakers.
Omar should get, and deserves major props for finding a lot of this talent, but Sandy will have get some credit too for having the skills sets to make the right decisions about processing this talent to the next level.
>>>"Omar often gave the impression that he was only capable of working on one thing at a time. He (and Jeff) failed to fully understand the free agent market and how to realize a return on all assets, especially Type A's. Who can forget how they mismanaged the Wagner situation, and cost the Mets two #1 draft choices."<<<
The Wilpons later all but said that they hired Omar realizing that he wasn't fully capable, in terms of having a full range of skill sets for the job, and they had to basically give/get him help in areas.
Sandy on the other hand, has a full array of skill sets. He knows the baseball end of things, and having a law degree he knows contracts and legalities, as well as being a knowledgeable business man - having taught business classes at university in California. A great organizer, and a leader of men.
I liked Omar, but he had become clear that it was time for him to go, and the job was getting beyond him after all the novelty of hiring the neighborhood guy had worn off.
"Of that list you have, don't act like they're all superstars please. I like a few of the names on that list but they all have stuff to prove - be fair"
Nowhere in this thread did I read anyone claim they were superstars. In fact, I didn't see much opinion on them at all.
"two seasons away from having the ability to win the division"
Probably, but a Wildcard isn't impossible. Overrated division.
"But he had Met money, so he hands were kinda tied in certain situations."
To be fair, we were basically 2nd or 3rd in payroll for most of his tenure. It wasn't like he didn't have resources. Half the people on this board could field a winning team with Yankee money.
"He was always well regarded as a talent evaluator. He was just a lousy executive."
Ah yes, explained perfectly with just two concise sentences.
"one can argue R. Ramirez is also a byproduct of Omar in that Omar's piece got him"
One can also argue that hes a byproduct of Steve Phillips for drafting Pagan in 1999...I guess we should just fire Sandy since he didn't REALLY get us any of the players on the active roster.
he's certainly had mixed results as far as drafting was concerned but don't forget he was hired after the 2004 season...it shouldn't take 8 years to finally see the impact of your drafting on the ML roster
plus his regime was not one that was very patient with young players/rookies.....he loved to throw money at aging vets that he thought had something left in the tank but that too often didn't....there's a decent chance he would have signed the 2012 version of Moises Alou or Shawn Green to take Duda's spot and IRod might be behind the plate instead of Thole.....ever notice how many of Omar's signings were out of baseball completely within a year or two??......those were the moves that he used to make....
for the longest time the only homegrown product on our roster was Mike Pelfrey
the key with draft picks is selection,development,and patience....he was good at selection sometimes
so yes,he did have some talent as a scout and that was what he was best suited for...but as far as being a GM of a major market team he was in over his head and was never on the path to fielding a young homegrown team
"Hold on Jim, you seem to be very high on this team, very high. Are you denying these are his players?"
govmule72, yes he is denying Omar any credit of any kind for the players he drafted
So what is your point, GM's now don't get credit for the players they draft? Your logic is obsurd.. Omar brought Collins into this organization to replace Bernazard..It was Omar who picked up the phone and made the call to ask Collins if he would come join the Mets organization..Omar and Collins go way back and collins interviewed for the managers job with the Mets when Randolph was hired..Collins said Omar conducted the most professional interview he has ever been a part of..
You want to talk about our farm system ranking poorly as a ay to suggest omar drafted poorly ect..who's rankings? baseball america?ROFL The same baseball america who said our farm system did not have an ike, or tejada, or niese, or thole, or duda, or murphy, or parnell, or Gee ect ect ect..the list goes on and on and on..Do you think mets fans give a hoot what BA says when they see kids like they are seeing at the ML level producing? All it does is show Mets fans that BA is not the end all be all when it comes to how you judge a farm system..BA is a tool, if you take BA word as gospel you end up looking like a fool..
Omar had bad luck but it was due to poor prior planning? Omar did what ownership wanted him to do and under the circumstances I don't disagree. The farm system omar took over was not even remotely close to the farm system sandy inherited..The majority of the kids would be some 5+ years away at the least. In the mean time he did his best to field a championship caliber team and he built around some great young players..They had no depth. Only now do we see depth in our farm system. We have let two of the games best players go in the last year and many Mets fans feel like the replacements are more than capable as does the organization.
You now have hopped on the bandwagon for Omars kids but don't want to give him any credit. Can't have it both ways.