""How many times has Haren given up 4 or more runs in a game this year?""

10 times in 25 starts, or 40% of the time.

Saunders 10 times in 23 starts, or 44% of the time

Thank you.

""How many times has Haren given up 4 or more runs in a game this year?""

>>>>>>>>10 times in 25 starts, or 40% of the time.

>>>>>>>>Saunders 10 times in 23 starts, or 44% of the time

So the if both had 32 starts this year Saunders would have 1.28 games more than Haren where he gave up 4 or more runs.

That's 3.8M per game based on their 2010 salaries. Don't see how anyone can justify that.

I think Daron Sutton was the one who insinuated during the broadcast that Haren had made it clear that he wanted out. I remember two weeks before the trade I was talking to my dad about Haren's demeanor while on the mound, his body language indicated that his heart was no longer with the Snakes. It's like someone who's fallen out of love, even though he is still in the relationship, he's gone already.

I was out with an attractive young woman barely half my age .... as shallow as it may seem it keeps me optimistic and relieves me of sexual tension which is a known cause of hallucinations such as imagining one can see the future. It also gives me a better outlook towards young people which explains why I prefer not to characterize young pitchers who I have never seen pitch in person as garbage....

Boris, I hope you know what you're getting yourself into when you date a woman half your age, it may give you a better outlook towards young people, but you have to ask yourself this question - why would an attractive young woman go out with a dude twice her age? It's always for money or power, let me tell you a true story.

My uncle married a beautiful young woman half his age. This young woman used him to regain custody of her two toddlers, which cost him more than $300,000 in legal fees. Once she got her kids back, she withdrew sex immediately and turned ice cold. They are now in the middle of a messy divorce. My uncle is now not only alone but also bitter, and more than anything he wishes he's stu.ck it out with his first wife who was his college sweetheart.

So, have fun while it lasts, but don't marry her.

Thanks for your concern slee but I'm pretty tightly wrapped when it comes to such matters ... out with means just that, sorry about your uncle and all ... getting laid, often, is something I highly recommend. Falling in love, not so much. Beautiful women and top of the rotation pitchers are alike in that regard IMO especially when the quality of the pitching/sexual performance is dwarfed by the money involved.

Lame thread, especially the part about aces.

If Haren pitched better before he was traded the Dbacks would have gotten more for him, and what he or Saunders do over a few weeks or even the rest of this season really doesn't matter.

History can't be written in the present, any serious analysis of that trade can't be made until the end of Haren's contract, which is a few years away.

My favorite part of this thread is those who hate Saunders continuing to say that he is our Ace. At no point did anyone say he was going to be our Ace. A matter of fact I think most said he would be a #2 or #3 and that the deal was all about cutting cost and the minor league guys they got in return.

It shows how dumb some people are as Haren has 2 wins and Saunders has 1....oh, but lets not look at win's and losses because all the smart people on this board would rather have a pitcher that loses every game but has 10K's with no walks... makes sense. Sorry, I would rather see a pitcher win with a 10ER and have this team make the playoffs. I guess I don't live in fantasy baseball land where stats are the only thing that matters. All about the W's baby.

Either way, they (Haren and Saunders) both s*ck right now. I agree with xmet until the end of their contracts you can't tell who got the better end of the deal. You have to evaluate everything from prospects to salaries.

Everyone should just pray that Skaggs (What the experts are calling our #1 pitching prospect) ends up being the real deal a few years from now.

I think you are using the term ACE too much. Saunders is no ACE. A matter of fact I don't think we currently have an ACE on the team. I think Hudson has the potential but I am not ready to say that he is the man 4 starts into his dback career.

You are right though, I don't view the deal as Haren for Saunders straight up and that is why I continue to hold out hope for Corbin/Skaggs... if I don't I will go crazy like all of you and be p*ssed off everyday. I do however view Saunders better than Doug Davis who we paid 7M+ too as our #3 pitcher. Saunders is actually cheaper as well.

So in a land of dreams, I am holding out hope that Hudson continues to develop and becomes a #2 (hopefully a #1 if he really develops that slider) and that Parker comes back from his injury and becomes a #1. Wishful thinking... maybe but who knows.

At the end of the day I at least see the pitching staff going in the right direction (bullpen excluded). Now if they can just trade away Reynolds and pick up a LF, and torch the pen I will be happy.

In the end, we can agree to disagree on the Haren/Saunders deal. If it ends up being a Haren for Saunders and the kids don't make it then you are 100% right (except you know I will mention the $ we saved just to save face LOL)

If the kids make it up and end up being good then I will be happy for both us and for the dbacks. Last thing I want either of us to become is a annoying Red Sox /Yankee fan!

I'm right here in Anaheim as I have been since Joe was struggling thru the minors. I wear his jersey to Angel games and I bought an autographed ball at the mlb auction a day before he was traded.

Be patient, let him get acclimated to the team, coaches, weather, etc. You'll see, he will make you proud. The thing I have always loved about Joe is his desire to win. He never gives up, pitches hurt, gives all he has each start. He never phones it in.

At this end we suffer thru each of Haren's starts and he's now blaming the catcher for calling the wrong pitches. When he got here he blasted the dbacks for lack of support and shaky defense. I'm leery of a guy who blames his teammates for his failings, but I'll give him time to do his adjusting here just as I'm begging you to do there.

I've gone out on a limb with my friends and stated beyond question, that 3-4 years from now it will be perfectly clear that the trade was a steal for the dbacks. Joe will be an all star again, the prospects will be in the bigs and the best we can hope for is that Haren can be as good as Saunders in 2013.

Joe is a quality guy and a quality pitcher, give him time you'll see, I promise.

I'm hoping to be there to see him pitch over labor day because, sadly, I can't see him in Anaheim.

This is exactly what I was talking about-

"He was a very determined pitcher tonight," Gibson said.

Joe's a fighter

Joe had won me over last night, he'll be all right. We have to remember that he'd been in the AL his entire career prior to coming here, he's not familiar with either the players or the ballparks in this league. I truly believe that given time, he'll be a big plus for us.

Garbage?

You should have seen him in Anaheim go toe to toe with Greinke at the time Greinke had an era of 1.00 roughly. This guy steps up in money games. He'll be terrific against san diego, philadelphia, and atlanta then fall apart against the pirates.

that's his problem right now, learning to take the same intensity to every game, every pitch. But once he gets it you'll have your ace and won't even remember Haren.

For what it's worth, Haren sure isn't our ace. He's a marginal #2 or even a #3, so don't inflate his talent either. The sad thing for Angels fans is Haren's on his down side while Saunders is still learning his craft and will only get better.

We got screwed on this deal, not you. We gave you a pitcher as good as Haren plus 3 others for a guy who can't win in the AL so far.