"But it's not the same atmosphere as NY, where the Yankees are always in contention, and there's 50,000 screaming fans almost every game."

Anybody who watched the last Mariners games in New York knows that what I said -- that the level of intensity in Yankee Stadium depends on the nature of the game -- is true. The place was hardly "rocking" during that series. And it's also true that where you're sitting in any stadium can affect your perception of the raucousness of the fans. If you're in the middle of King's Court, Safeco is going to "rock" a lot more from your point of view than if you're in the corner of the right field seats. That's just common sense.

But, when the Yankees enter the discussion, you and common sense go separate ways. Nothing new there. It's always that way with you. I made a couple of readily verifiable observations about Yankee Stadium and you dragged out your tired old script and reacted as if I were attacking the stadium. If you don't love the Yankees, you hate New York. What a self-serving lie, and so redolent with the arrogance of a Yankee fan. I don't hate all Yankee fans; I've gone to games with Yankee fans. But arrogant, duplicitous Yankee fans like you and lowlifes like those slimebags in the bleachers -- yeah, they're easy to detest. Anybody who'd defend scumwads who chant obscenities in the presence of small children is taking fanhood way too far.

"But, when the Yankees enter the discussion, you and common sense go separate ways."

Nope. Quit projecting your insanity and dysfunction onto me. I have enough to deal with as it is. Ichiro made a harmless comment about the crowd noise and intensity being much greater than it is in Seattle, and you started a thread ripping Ichiro a new one because he plays for the Yankees, and like many sports fans, you're so pitifully immature that you're actually allowing this to make you upset.

That's exactly what's happening, and it's a mixture of funny and sad to observe.

" If you don't love the Yankees, you hate New York. What a self-serving lie, and so redolent with the arrogance of a Yankee fan... arrogant, duplicitous Yankee fans like you and lowlifes like those slimebags in the bleachers -- yeah, they're easy to detest. Anybody who'd defend scumwads who chant obscenities in the presence of small children is taking fanhood way too far."

I'm speaking specifically to you. I don't believe you're necessarily representative of most people. You, specifically, are an annoying, immature, condescending, borderline-insane toolbox.

You completely hate the Yankees and their fans with a passion so deep it's both scary and amusing. That's why you're whining about Ichiro like the little b**ch that you are: he wears the Pinstripes, so now all the great years he gave Seattle are out the window, and you're just going to sh*t all over him.

Your act is so old, man. Tell it to your shrink. I'm not getting paid to listen to your psychotic BS.

"You completely hate the Yankees and their fans with a passion so deep it's both scary and amusing."

Gee, you're a tenacious little pit bull, aren't you? Just can't let go of your stock phrase and blatant lie. I already explained to you, numerous times, that I don't hate all Yankee fans. In fact, I've had some very pleasant conversations about baseball with several Yankee fans since I moved back home to New York. We've discussed the Pineda deal, their feelings about losing Montero, and the arrival of Ichiro, among other things. Very nice people. I like nice Yankee fans. I just don't like you, because you're a jerk. Has nothing to do with the Yankees. If you were a fan of the Mudhens, you'd still be a jerk, and your history of conflict with other posters on this forum speaks for itself -- and, of course, it's always their fault, never yours.

"...he wears the Pinstripes, so now all the great years he gave Seattle are out the window, and you're just going to sh*t all over him."

Nice reversal there, champ. In fact, what this thread was about was Ichiro throwing all those great years of fan support back in our teeth for the sake of one lousy curtain call in the Bronx.

Instead of relying on your faulty and biased impressions -- as the popular New York sportscaster Warner Wolf used to say -- let's go to the videotape:

http://mlb.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?content_id=3731666

http://newyork.yankees.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?content_id=23474001&topic_id=8877494&c_id=nyy

"I don't know if it was because it was my first home run as a Yankee or because it was my 100th home run, but I don't think I have ever received that kind of ovation from the fans -- that many and that loud," Ichiro said. "Maybe it was the first time in my career I received something that big."

Yeah, that home run in the Bronx definitely inspired a bigger response than any we ever gave him at Safeco. No wonder he doesn't remember any bigger reactions in Seattle anymore.

And you've often promised to put me on Ignore. When are you ever going to keep your word?

To be brutally honest, if I move out of the Pacific Northwest, I really don't think I would have that much interest in the Mariners.

"Gee, you're a tenacious little pit bull, aren't you? Just can't let go of your stock phrase and blatant lie."

Nope. You're just an a-hole. F*** this, and f*** you.

I'm out.

Yay!

I'm still hanging with them. It's not just the team; it's the associations I have with the State of Washington, which I truly love. If I weren't in New York, that's where I'd wanna be. I've lived all over this country, and no other state I've lived in tops Washington. It's such a beautiful place. Besides, I think the M's will eventually give us something to cheer about. Maybe new owners, for one thing.

The State of Washington has is awesome in many ways. Professional sports, in particular baseball, is not one of them. I think sometimes the Mariners are a scab on the @$$ of Seattle.

Well, the M's have never won the big one. They're underdogs, and I tend to favor underdogs. Mets instead of Yankees, always -- and that's why. A long time ago, a comedian named Joe E. Lewis said: "Rooting for the New York Yankees is like rooting for U.S. Steel." In those days, America still had a prospering steel industry and U.S. Steel was an industrial giant.

There's something more satisfying in a long-shot victory. I think that's why it's one of the abiding motifs in drama. The poor schlub from the blue-collar family gets the girl that the rich, preppy snob covets but doesn't love. The runner whose feet are horribly burned goes on to win footraces in the Olympics (that one really happened). Washed-up palooka Terry Malloy defeats Johnny Friendly and the waterfront mob. The seven samurai hold off a host of invaders. David fells Goliath.

I can't imagine that the fourth World Championship in five years won by the Yankees could have been as satisfying to a Yankee fan as the first World Championship in Seattle will be for Mariners fans. It'll be a long grind; it already has been. But the payoff will be blissful. It's gotta be.

I don't condone violence in general. But when the meek little kid on the playground who's been the longtime victim of the schoolyard bully hauls off and decks the big coward who's been abusing him, there's something so deeply satisfying in that, something so right, that it seems to redeem the world for a brief moment from the pall of oppression and injustice that hangs over life like a dirty shroud too much of the time. I guess, as Jimmy Breslin observed, most of us are losers. And when another loser wins, we can take a vicarious victory from that, even if it's not quite enough to inspire us to hope in our own chances. Does that make sense? Maybe not. But when Kerri Strug nailed the landing on her gold medal vault in the 1996 Olympics, when she could barely walk on her injured ankle and collapsed after saluting the judges, that still ranks in my heart as one of the greatest sports moments I've ever witnessed. Beating the odds -- there's just something about it.

I've taken that angle as well. I imagine the day (say 2026) that Safeco is filled with people waving hankys and it's the sixth game of the World Series. The Mariners are up in the Series 3 games to 2. It's the bottom of 9th inning, they are ahead by two runs, there are two outs, and a runner on first. We have some Dominican born flamethrower on the bound who is even in the count 2-2. Here's the pitch. It's a high popup inside the infield, the shortstop gets underneath and sees it into his glove, the place explodes, players pile on to one another. The Mariners are the 2026 World Series champions. Seattle is in a frenzy for weeks, big parades, celebrations. We open up the 2027 year by having a ring ceremony and unfurling a banner saying "2026 World Champions" Yes, 2026 was a year never to forget.
Fast forward 15 years to 2041. The Mariners have made one playoff appearance since their World Championship. They are about ready to finish 5th in the division for the 3rd consecutive year. Occasionally, you see a fan with a worn and faded 2026 World Champions shirt or the jersey of a player from that team. At least three times a game between innings, they replay part of that championship season. And the guy sitting next to you will converse about how great that season was and how you will probably never see the Mariners win another title in your lifetime.
There are simply too many baseball seasons to endure year in and year out, just to hope for that one magical year. And, eventually, the shine will wear off of that season as well. I wonder what 1985 really means to Kansas City Royals fans. Probably not much to anybody under 40 and the younger fans probably here the stories of Saberhagen, George Brett, Willie Wilson, etc. and hope that on year they will see the same thing in their lifetime.
I think being a fan of a team is about having pride and tradition much more than just hoping for that one magical season. I really don't think the type of scenario I am describing is all that appealing, but it's probably a best case scenario if you are a Mariners fan.

Not quite sure why you guys are arguing, but it doesn't seem all that important. Last I checked, Ichiro looks like the same washed up has been for NY as he did here. In fact, his numbers are even worse. I think the Yankees were just honoring him, because they appreciate a great player and are happy to have him on their team for his last season in the MLB, because it is obvious that he can't play anymore. Be nice to one another and try not to be so sensitive. I come into this forum from time to time and I think you and brotherfox are both pretty reasonable. We all have our quirks of over pessimism or over optimism, but no reason to fight over little stuff.

By the way, does anybody remember that poster in here "annoyedbyu" who challenged me to a fight and kept posting videos of himself hitting a home run in some goofy amateur league to show he was an expert? LOL I just thought about that when I thought of dumb posters.

You hated to bust his bubble, but, as I recall it, the guy was in a glorified beer league comparing himself to major leaguers. Poignant.

That was exactly who he was and what his schtick was. If I remember correctly, he was talking about how important team chemistry was using his experience of being in a league where you form a team and sign up with a bunch of your buddies to play.

I will say that I admire NY fans for their passion. As you NY guys know baseball's a religion. I grew up in WA... I remember betting my co-workers (Yankees fans) SEA was going to win game 6 of the ALCS in 2000 and tie it up. I had to listen to the rest of the game on the radio while out on run at work. Darn if NYY didn't hit that HR. I had to eat those words needless to say.

When they won the subway series I went to the store at midnight and saw the crowded streets, bars, and parade of cars cruising honking their horns like crazy.

I also went to to see SEA play at old Yankee Stadium sweeping the Yanks. Some of the bleacher creatures were heckling Jeff Nelson, Sasaki Rhoades etc in the bullpen and were so bad they were kicked out of the game. Some of the fans behind me were saying...no big deal we'll take them in the playoffs.

My point is that was those instances are when I was a true SEA fan and that I wanted to see NY loose the pennant or any playoffs to Seattle. While I admired the rivalry between NY and SEA I realized they have a self entitlement attitude that they deserve to win every year.

I enjoy these corny dialogues... I hate arguing and some people get to bent out of shape. This Ichiro hang up is getting rather old. Some people need to stop beating the horse and move on.

I agree. The whole point of talking about baseball is that there is really nothing important at stake. To bicker about who is a better fan or other nonsense is ridiculous. As for Ichiro, you are right. Mariner fans just need to let it go. Yankee fans don't care about the Mariners, so we should just cut our obsession, be glad Ichiro has a chance to finish in the postseason, and be glad that the organization has solved the problem with what to do with Ichiro.

Yeah I wish him well. I'll still admire him from afar. Who knows maybe he'll come back to retire in Seattle like Griffey. Until then I'll just hope and enjoy the new makeup of team.

The way I see it now they may not be ready for the playoffs but next season or 2014 there looks to be a good problem with a logjam of talented players waiting to come up. That's what I'm looking forward to.

No baseball player with any pride wants to, "retire in Seattle like Griffey."

Hi, I'm suc-king, I'm done, riding the pine because of it, so I'm quitting today, as in right now, putting a suitcase in the trunk of my overpriced car, giving my current manager the finger, this after falling asleep in the clubhouse and putting him in an embarrasing position, and riding off into the sunrise (he drove east). Nice legacy.

========

maybe he'll come back to retire in Seattle like Griffey.

"Not quite sure why you guys are arguing..."

It's a simple explanation, actually. I enjoy discussions with cool, good-natured people, and <brotherfox> is a mean-spirited, pompous, delusional a-hole.

That's exactly why we butt heads. <Brotherfox> is an a-hole, and he's kinda crazy. I mean, what kind of delusional nutjob actually takes a player's postgame comments so seriously that he spends weeks b**ching about him on a message board?

I made very simple, very accurate points about the differences between watching a game in NY versus watching a game in Seattle. You go watch a game in Safeco, fly across the country and watch a game in Yankee Stadium. You tell me which team has more fan attendance. You tell me which stadium gets louder when there's a full count and two outs in a close game.

And this ridiculous, full-of-s*** whacko is going to call me names for making really simple, completely non-controversial points.

F*** <brotherfox>. That guy is a loser. F*** him. He's one of the biggest losers I've ever encountered on the Internet. He needs to get a new act.

But he's too stupid and crazy to do so, so you guys have fun dealing with his BS, 'cause I'm done with that tw*t.

"While I admired the rivalry between NY and SEA I realized they have a self entitlement attitude that they deserve to win every year."

That's a definite downside to Yankees fans. The intensity cuts both ways. It's cool when you're in an atmosphere where you have 50,000 people screaming for the same thing.

But a lot of Yankees fans are, as you point out, entitled, overbearing, and stupid. That the Yankees win all the time is why they have so many fans. Yet, the fact that they win all the time is the reason why so many Yankees fans don't appreciate just how good they have it. The newer generation of Yankees fans has never seen the team not in the playoffs. They don't appreciate how many cities never get to play important games the second half of the season.