Trading a Cy Young winner for 3 injuries players with two of them being nothing more then backups in Donald and Marson I hated that trade especially since Lee wasn't going to be a free agent for another year and a half. It wasn't like they desperately had to get rid of Lee at the time and I felt they could have found a better trade partner and got more in a return.

I doubt any Indians fan liked the Colon trade at the time especially after Colon went on to win 20 games that year. But that was the start of the house cleaning, Shapiro wanted to put together "his" team so he had to get rid of as many of the players who were there before he took over to start on what he called "the plan". I wasn't that much disliking Shapiro for a few years until he started coming on during the games and doing his double talking saying one thing and then the next time he would be on saying something totally different, I guess he figured nobody was paying attention the last time he was in the booth.

Being back in South Carolina I can't hear anything that Drennan says so it would be interesting to know what kind of things he is saying especially after Perez's meltdown on Sunday.

I don't know if anyone in here is employed by the Indians and being used to reinforce everything that Chris and Mark have done or it is just wishful thinking with it being in their minds that everything that is being done has been for a purpose and everything was being done the right way, oops, looks like that sure isn't very true. Hoynes to me when people would post his articles has always been on the front offices side and is one of those in the media who doesn't question much of anything they have done. It seems like the media has been told which questions they are allowed to ask whenever there is an interview all the way back to when they would talk to Wedge after games.

I just post the way I feel about stuff and it just doesn't sit right with certain people in here. I guess if all of us came here day after praising the front office and feeling everything is going good just think how boring it would be. There is nothing wrong with being optimistic but watching the things that have been going on with this team for so long I don't understand how people could still be so optimistic right up to the trade deadline when I think most of us knew nothing was going to happen to improve the team.

Joe I am right with your thinking here my friend. I NEVER thought much of Shapiro and I think less of Antoinetti. To me they are simply number guys with the numbers having Dollar signs in front, Just what Paul Dolan wants. Putting money into the family trust.

I CAN JUST IMAGINE THE SUGAR PLUMS DANCING IN dOLANS HEAD AT THE BROWN'S SALE PRICE. He is getting the idea the trust could move into the billions. He should realise that never happens with the team today. He would be lucky and thankful to get the poice his daddy overpaid at the purchase. A billionaire fan would never pay close to a billion for this bust out team. To make a WS winner here will take time and money and great tallent evaluation. Dolan does NOT seem to have enough of any of those ingriedients.

His first order of buisness should be CLEAN HOUSE on the FO, SCOUTS AND MANAGER. Bring in a new GM first who is a baseball man or woman. Then give Sandy a shot as manager. Now the GM brings in his people and scouts. Sandy brings in his people as coaches. Then you have to back them with the cash. MO BS about it. If the people saw these changes happening and getting good player they will come and see the games.

I have got to find the article on the indians that was supposedly on yahoo. From what i heard it said the Indians F.O is essentially not respected by others in the league. They won't offer up good players because the Indians always settle for lesser players, other teams don't want our minor league guys because we draft so poorly (they want guys who are young and proved they are good at the mlb level first), and that teams basically feel if the Indians are trading someone they need to get rid of them because they know A) the Dolans are losing money and NEED to move the guys ASAP, or B) they will lose them as FA's and can just wait till then to get them.

makes total sense from the confirmed trade rumors in the past and basically how the FO operates.

That's sad - but unfortunately, probably true.

Both pitchers in the Lee trade were considered to have a ceiling of an ace or No. 1 but Carrasco more likely to be a No.2. The rankings in top 50 or even higher (Knapp at least top 15) was for all of major league prospects BA and others.

Carrasco had about 4 starts, that he was terrible in, when he was hurt. This was right after he pitched so well. This pushed his era up considerably. They couldn't figure out why his stuff so far off - when you need TJ surgery that could happen.

The trade for Lee and Sizemore was a real bonanza for complaints. Complain when they trade for Lee & Size then when they trade one away.

When a pitcher is pitching like a No5 in the rotation you don't trade prospects that you would for an ace. .. Rockies haven't handled Pom and White all that well. Pom needed to develop a 3rd pitch but was called up to the majors. Not the place to develop a pitch. Pom does have a 6 inning shutout and a lower era than Baldo. White his last start a 5+ innings giving up 2 runs in Colorado.

No matter what happens after this season, the fans are not going to start coming back until they are sure they have a team worth paying to watch on the field, well, besides the visiting team. At least Dolan still has Yankee fans, Boston fans and Tiger fans paying to see the games.

Okay I know they have rankings for all of Major League baseball and then rankings within each organization but they also have a ton of other rankings like The Sporting News and other publications. Maybe I am wrong but to me from what I saw of Carrasco before he got hurt he looked like a #3 and no higher. Of course I thought Masterson was more then a #3 so that shows I have no idea but Jimenez except for one year I never thought he would be much more then a #3.

Pitching hurt will definitely affect your numbers. The guy to me just seemed nervous on the mound and didn't look to have a lot of confidence, maybe that is just the way he is and not a guy who gets the ball and is ready to throw the next one. Right now they very badly need someone to step up and be a #1 but it might take Carrasco until 2014 until he settles in after that surgery but by then it might not matter a whole lot.

The trade for Lee and Sizemore was more shock then anything else, how can you trade our best pitcher and get a bunch of guys we never heard of? After the 90's I think that Colon trade was very hard to take because it signaled a changing of the guard and the beginning of a full blown rebuild that most fans weren't ready for.

Not a smart move to have a pitcher work on a new pitch in games situations at the Major League level. Who knows maybe they had something to do with Jimenez changing his delivery just so they could get him back on the mound to trade him since he was causing a problem complaining about his contract. They way things have gone in Cleveland and the inability to fix the problems with the wildness of Masterson and Jimenez, White and Pom might have been worse.