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    • Keeping RA,dealing Niese = one step forward two steps back
  • 11/8/12
  • bbjmparis
RA is twice as good as Niese. Since we're not going to get anything good for either of them...good players want to get paid, the Wilpons don't want to pay. Why would you want to trade the better player for nothing?
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  • 11/8/12
  • edmet
i agree inre niese/dickey. not so sure about wright. we would need a big package for wright with mlb ready players included. right now we have 4 position players we can count on, wright, tejada,ike and murphy. and ike and murphy (defense) are a little shaky. but trading dickey is a no brainer, again for a big package.
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Message 545204.23 was deleted
  • 11/8/12
  • metrebel

>> i agree, my personal preference is to build a solid,top of the line starting staff that's young and that we'd have together for 4 or 5 years similar to the Glavine,Maddux,Smoltz ERA in Atlanta

Pitching is the name of the game.

>> again,just my thinking,but i believe the Rays would give us a very good pitcher from amongst their stable of arms for an Ike Davis,they need some power and a first baseman....he may be a real force away from Citifield....if we could get a Hellickson or Moore as part of a deal for Ike would you do that?

Before I would give up Ike I would have to get one he*ll of a package. Ike didn't have a great average but he did raise it some 60 points from the middle of the season to the end. This kid has GG potential. Even the Mets he could put up 35HRs and 100+ RBI. I have to get a real good package from his.

>> i love the idea of having Niese,Wheeler,Harvey,and a Hellickson/Moore moving forward while dealing Dickey and David for as many prospects as we can get back....with that starting rotation we would be "in" every game,IMO

Dickey and Wright are the only two on the ML roster you could be sure to get excellent quality back for in a trade. Ike and Neise would bring back good value, but do you really trade two talented you can build around.

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Message 545204.25 was deleted
  • 11/8/12
  • spydermet

"Post beat writer Ken Davidoff i believe suggested it in a total rebuild scenario)"

Ken Davidoff is a Yankees beat writer and Yankees fan. All of his articles about the Mets seem negative. For instance "trade Neise" and the Yankees are looking for pitching. This sounds like his "wish list" for a Yankees acquisition.

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  • 11/8/12
  • metrebel

>> In regards to Ike and last year you have to factor in that he missed a entire season which is very hard to come back from right away. he still had a good second half. he is only 25 has great power and if he can correct some things he will be an all-star. However if a team offers us a great package we would have to consider trading him

When you miss an entire season you just don't get it all back in the time you have in ST. He's 25 and still learning. He's got that power swing which means he will K a lot. He's got to pick it up against lefties. I'd like to see him take the approach Heyward has down in Atlanta. If a team gives you an offer you can't refuse you would have to trade him. I would have to have one great package to trade him though.

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  • 11/8/12
  • AdrianMonk


As I just posted elsewhere, I think the tendency now is to over-value Niese somewhat. He had a few good games, but I still see him as a #3 type, perhaps somewhat better than average. As our only lefty starter, he is important, but not irreplaceable. Anyway, I don't see him as a Glavine, Maddux or Smoltz.

I like your idea of trading for Moore, but it seems to be mostly a pipe dream right now. Management isn't likely to give up on Ike that easily.

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  • 11/8/12
  • Remember86
Unless the Mets can get a quality young lefty back in the trade for Niese, I see no sense in dealing him while keeping Dickey. And even then, why trade for someone we may already have? We have numerous holes. Why not use Dickey and others not named Niese to fill them? As far as trading Dickey is concerned, I would hope they'd get one major league ready youngster as part of the deal (hopefully an outfielder with either speed or power).
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  • 11/8/12
  • 86kid

>>>"i guess it's all rumors of course but just offering my opinion on the philosophy of keeping a 38 year old pitcher and dealing a 26 year old lefty
i can't see how that makes any sense moving forward,not even to this FO and ownership
then again i'm in the re-build camp and would deal David also
dealing for prospects with Dickey and keeping a young lefty seems to be the direction we SHOULD be moving in"<<<

Well, you already know I agree 100% with all that. Makes little sense to deal a young, inexpensive Neise for prospects, when you can trade a much older, more expensive Dickey prospects, and likely get better prospects ta' boot.

According the Ken Rosenthal. Appartently "sources" are saying the Mets aren't all that keen now on extending Dickey, and are talking trades. With "sources", who knows what is true or not, but that would make the most logical sense. I just don't see Sandy moving Neise if he can move Dickey instead.


Edited 11/8/12   by  86kid
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  • 11/8/12
  • murphstates
I agree with you, but I will say this, I often get the feeling that many of the moves they make have a little too much concern for PR. If Dickey wins the Cy Young, as he should, it's going to be a hard sell to casual fans if he's dealt.
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  • 11/8/12
  • 86kid

I actually think that many, if not most fans, are either in favor of dealing Dickey, or at the very least are already well of a mind that he could get dealt and are able to better absord if it happens

If the Mets is worried about PR backlash by dealing, I don't think he should be. If anything, they should be more worried about the backlash if they put incomplete teams on the field. Having one of two stars, and the bunch of holes around them, isn't going to bring more fans to the park, and it sure won't save them from continued bashing from the critical mass.

I also thinks this applies to Wright's case - but to a lessor degree. I just don't feel like there is going to be much in the way of serious backlash if he gets dealt. The possiblity been on the table for awhile now, and I see a lot of fans either in favor of it, or at least willing to absorb the it within storming Citifield with torches and pitch-forks... epsecially the the Mets bring back three top tier kids for him.

I agree with you in that it does kinda feel like they are more PR related moves if they extend these two guys, but I'd say they should not be thinking that way, because I don't think the fallout will be that big a deal if they trade them. If nothing else, fans are fickle, and they'll find new players to fall in love with.


Edited 11/8/12   by  86kid
Edited 11/8/12   by  86kid
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  • 11/9/12
  • stearnsy12
i don't want to trade the better player for nothing...you're suggesting we'll get nothing in return for either of them not me
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  • 11/9/12
  • stearnsy12

i'd rather take a team's BEST prospect even if he's at A+ ball rather than a lesser prospect who just finished AAA and might make it to the bigs in '13

i'd like to balance the players coming back that have the highest upside with being a year or two away,not necessarily lesser prospects that are closer to making their big league debuts

my emphasis would be on returning maximum talent rather than basing our decisions on a timetable

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  • 11/9/12
  • stearnsy12

while i wouldn't necessarily look aggressively to deal Ike i would check in with teams that could use a first baseman and have solid prospects (Texas and Tampa Bay?)....i'm certainly not saying Ike HAS to go, i just think he'd bring back a solid return from a team that has a particular need we could fill (i'm not sold on Ike although i certainly admire the power he can provide)

i have no interest in dealing Niese whatsoever unless,for example, the O's want to give us Bundy plus,ie we're blown away by an offer that makes us younger and better....

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  • 11/9/12
  • stearnsy12

i'm just commenting on the fact that Niese's names been mentioned as a possible trade chip while we negotiate with Dickey on an extension (even Sandy alluded to these in the article today here on the website)

we really don't know how things will play out this offseason....i just feel (my opinion) at the end of the day that IF it comes to pass that we wind up keeping Dickey and dealing Niese we'll be taking a net step back as far as the future of our franchise is concerned

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  • 11/9/12
  • stearnsy12

i think your assessment of Niese is about right,as it stands now he's probably a solid #3,but i don't think he's done improving and maturing but only time will tell.....

i think he could potentially fit in nicely behind Harvey and Wheeler,ultimately,and if we could nab a #2 like Hellickson or Moore from the Rays Niese becomes an outstanding #4 and could potentially put our starting staff in the elite category

i think you're right,the FO hangs onto Ike,but i would at least talk with a team like the Rays and see what kind of deal could be put together involving Davis and Moore/Hellickson

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  • 11/9/12
  • stearnsy12
i agree,i think Niese as an improving,relatively young,relatively inexpensive lefty fits our future plans very well
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  • 11/9/12
  • stearnsy12

i agree completely, the idea that the FO isn't as keen on extending Dickey makes sense to me given his age and what he might cost

as we've discussed before he'd be a great fit for a current contender who might need an ace-like guy to put them over the top and i think he'd bring back a very solid return

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  • 11/9/12
  • metrebel

>> while i wouldn't necessarily look aggressively to deal Ike i would check in with teams that could use a first baseman and have solid prospects (Texas and Tampa Bay?)....i'm certainly not saying Ike HAS to go, i just think he'd bring back a solid return from a team that has a particular need we could fill (i'm not sold on Ike although i certainly admire the power he can provide)

It would all depend of course on what you would get back. I'm not sold on Duda at all. He would be the player that most likely would take over 1B. He strikes me as a Kingman type who was all or nothing. That's fine if you have a number of other hitters so that you can live with it. Also you would give up defense at 1B. The Mets aren't really a good defensive team te way it is. Of course if you get blown away by an offer you would have to at least seriously consider trading Ike.

>> i have no interest in dealing Niese whatsoever unless,for example, the O's want to give us Bundy plus,ie we're blown away by an offer that makes us younger and better....

IMO it would be a mistake to trade Neise. Good lefty starting pitching is in great demand. For that reason alone I don't trade him. Again if you get an offer that blows you away it's a different story.

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