I haven't heard anything new on that bill to allow guns without safety classes so I am thinking the rest of the people down here thought it was totally stupid too. We had to pass a written test at the end of both classes in Ohio and South Carolina and then you had to have a certain score on the range before they would pass you and let you get a permit. Plus they run background checks on everyone to make sure nobody with any kind of record can get a permit.

OK my friend let's hope the NRA pac doesn't get that changed. Now that makes sense. I would also like like to see a walking range score made a part of the certification process though. That would be a perfect way to operate.Let it be the same test the police take. That would be the perfect execution.

Mow having said that I can live with the way it is. The background check is also good. Shows someone has some sense.

I never thought I would ever live long enough to see states actually pass it and a lot of states have already and like with Ohio have expanded the rules with allowing to carry in a place where you are eating but they serve alcohol as long as you are not drinking it.

The range tests in Ohio was just shooting at a paper plate but the one down here they started you out close range and increased it plus they had you shooting drawing from your holster in some rounds which was interesting. The moving target walking like the police do would be interesting but I bet the only places who have that are police departments and since a lot of police departments are not all for people having the permits I doubt they would let anyone use those ranges.

They take your fingerprints and a copy of your drivers license and in Ohio it took about 2 weeks for them to run the background check and then give you the permit. In South Carolina you mail all your stuff in to the state and they say it could take up to 3 months before you get the permit and they make sure it is 3 months almost to the day before you get it in the mail.

I thought gun clubs would have the walking targets available. Just didn't think about the police being the only place available. Thinking about it now that would be an expensive test I can see that now and I am sure you are right. I can also see that the police would bot want the publictesting on their equipment.

I can see the point about the booze. People can lose their head when drinking. Some time in the mid '80's my wife, daughter and I were coming home about 1:30 am from doing the floors at my brothers print shop. I was tired because I had worked that morning and my wife was driving. As we got 65th and lorain ave. we could see a comotion out side a bar. Yeah a bar fight the car in front of us stopped dead my wife stopped. Two guys were fighting when one pulled out chrome 38 snubnose. He out right on the guys forehead the guy immediately ducked. The gun was then pointed directly at me I was telling my wife to go around the car. The car door flew open and a guy jumped out and was running right at the guy with the gun then I noticed him pulling a .38 out from the small of his back. He shoved the gun in the gunmans ear and pulled the gun from his all in one motion. He was a Plain chothes detective. His partner whipped the car into a spot and was right there by the time the first policeman got the guy in the ground. Scared me when the gun was right on me. I yelled for my daughter to hit the ground and she did in the back seat of the van.

There only a couple shooting ranges in the Toledo area and one of them burned down about a year and a half ago and I read they just rebuild and got it opened back up now. I know of the police range that the Toledo police use that is a new place where the community college is and fire departments and police from all over come there to train. The only ranges down here in this area are three, two inside and one outside but the outside one is just a regular range not a walking one. They just had a big problem with people complaining about the outside range because they didn't think they should have to listen to guns during the day but the range was there before a lot of the homes were built so at the county meeting they said they really couldn't do anything about the range because they have the permits for that range and they can't do anything to shut it down. One women went to the meeting and said she didn't think her kids should have to listen to the shooting all day long. They really don't have a lot of laws down here in the county where we live where you will hear guns a lot of time because people as long as they are setup where what they are shooting at doesn't leave their property nobody can do anything about it. Now in the city limits it is a lot different. One thing they have down here they don't have in Ohio is as long as you have a permit and you are on your own property you can carry your guns out in the open. At least that way if someone is casing the neighborhood they can see who has the guns.

Oh yeah booze and guns don't mix but the problem is the people who can legally carry guns except in bars and places that serve alcohol usually are the only ones without guns because they are obeying the law. The woman at the 7-11 I have gone to for over 30 years wasn't happy because of the sign they had saying no guns allowed, she said that just keeps her regular customers from coming into the store with their guns but all the trouble makers bring their in anyway and she has never been robbed by one of her regular gun carrying customers. They took down the sign after I wrote to 7-11 and complained that after 30 years I refuse to go into the store because I couldn't carry my gun that I had a permit for. When 7-11 sent someone out to take down the sign she said she knew who it was who wrote the letter and she was all smiles. She would always ask my wife why doesn't your husband come in and get the lottery or milk or bread and stuff anymore and the wife told her because of that sign. She always has a smile now when I go in there.... lol

That is a big problem, it is always some innocent person who ends up being the one who gets shot. I have noticed since the eastside of Toledo has gotten so bad there are 3 or 4 unmarked police cars on that side of town all the time. When something goes down at one of the bars you won't be able to get down the street because there are always 7 or 8 police cars out front, they don't mess around sending just one anymore.

Joe that was a good thing getting 7/11 to change their policy. That is exactly where a CC could help. The thing with no carry with alcohol present is still a problem because the criminal element is going to be carrying anyway. Tough one to solve.

I asked my buddy who was a Cleveland detective to take me to their range and he told me he was forbidden from bringing non-police persons there. You had to show a badge of some dept to gain access and there was no exceptions. He tried to get his son in once and they were turned away because his son wasn't an officer.

That undercover had grey hair and looked about ready to retire. He sure could move though. He was big had to be about 6'3" I was looking right at the gunmans face he nearly pooped his pants when the undercover shoved that gon in his ear and disarmed him in the same move. That had to be a move he perfected over the years. The cop was smooth as silk. Now this all happened in the blink of an eye. theyhad him cuffed and stood up within a minute. The other undercover was about the same age and he could drive he whipped that car into a spot and was out the door before the car stopped moving. Two very quick and well practiced cops just doing their job. Before they had the guy in their car they had dispersed the bystanders. I was really impressed with how fluid they worked.

Yeah it really doesn't matter if you have a permit or not there are always going to be those who have guns who don't have a permit and only have one thing in mind for carrying that gun and it isn't just for their own protection. Of all the carryouts and grocery stores around Toledo 7-11 was the only one that used to have the no guns sign in the window. Trust me when you have a permit you are always looking around before you go into any store especially one you haven't been in before like when we travel to make sure you are within the law when you walk into that store. What is nice for us is that every state we go through from South Carolina to Ohio all honor our permits so we carry all the way home and back. I've heard some stories about how older people can be a target on the road and since we are older people I feel better know we have a chance to protect ourselves in case something does happen.

I think that is the way it is everywhere at the police ranges, most likely to protect themselves and with the way their insurance is written, police personal only.

Being that guy was older he must have done those thing many times over the years, a younger cop might not have handled it the same way, he might have just gotten out of the car and drawn his weapon trying to disarm the gunman verbally and you never know what could have happened if he did it that way but I don't think it would have been as effective. I have stopped at 7-11 a few times when the undercover cops are in there and I am 6' 1" and I have to look up to all those guys in plain cloths. I think they pick the biggest guys to work those jobs as they can be intimidating just by how big they are.

My daughters boyfriend and I were talking today about CC. He is a cleveland fireman. He has handled many shooting runs. He definately has his opinions about wher you should not be allowed to carry. The one he was most vehiment about was bars. His family owned a local bar for over 30 years. They just recently sold the buisness. He told me they never had a gun ever. His dad was a boxer though. they were robbed a few times but no one was ever hurt. The standing rule was give them the money booze cigaretts any thing they wanted so they would let you out the door unhurt. Then him and some of his fellow pipefitters and some iron workers would come and find you. All but 1 time they got the money all back after the robbers spent some time in the hospital and they had no gun when the baoys left.

Also Tommy told me to tell you that if you get stopped by the police to let them know immediately you have a weapon and a permit.He was in the south for most of his time in the rangers and he said they don't play down there.

Your buddy had the right idea except today even if you give them the money and everything else they still might shot you because they might be on drugs or just plain crazy. I know a couple of robberies in the Toledo area where they handed over all the money and cigs and the robber still shot and killed the person behind the counter. I guess it is kind of like a fight when kids our age were growing up. You fight and get everything over and done with and it was over and most times you ended up being friends with the person you had a fight with. Now a fight breaks out and out comes a gun or someone loses a fight and goes and gets a gun and comes back. You don't see just a fight and it is over anymore.

Our instructor down here told us if you get pulled over the cop already knows you have a permit when he runs your tags so keep your hands on the top of the steering wheel and tell them you are armed as soon as they come up to the window. He said there have been cops down here who come to your vehicle with their guns drawn just because they know you have a permit.

Tommy told me he used to get stopped in a military jeep wearing his uniform. He siad the cops came up with guns drawn and as the got to the jeep he could hear them rack a round in. He said he would be yelling I have no weapon. He said they were crazy around Bragg.

I understand about the fights buddy. Some of my best friends came after a knock down dragout fight.

I guess they figured anyone who was in uniform was carrying an AK47 with them..... lol lol

TOMMY said they were looking for fully auto MP-5's he said they were confiscating them and then they disappeared before the brass could get them back. Tommy also said they never got any from him because he would never take a weapon off the base. He would carry his knife but they would never bother that. They would just stop them and search for the gun tommy never got issued a warning.

If they were looking for a specific gun and he didn't have one there was no way he should have gotten anything more then a Thank you very much have a nice night.

Your off your meds again aren't you. It makes you say really stupid $4it.

Tommy said he got that advice to never carry his weapon off base from a bird colonel. They knew what the cops were doing and were working on an operation to get them. Now I never heard anything about this so must not have worked out for the MP's.

That is good that he was told and didn't have to find out the hard way. MP's I would say wouldn't have a problem because with their training and the cops knowing that they have to be armed in their jobs I don't think the cops messed with any of them.

Ok how did a thread titled uniforms get to guns?

Very easy for me and Joe. We just start rolling and here we are buddy.

I think the original thread wore out what it was meant to be about..... lol Okay uniforms, I hate the block C and won't buy anything unless it has Chief Wahoo on it. I enjoyed watching the Indians win last night and also enjoyed seeing the blue caps with Chief Wahoo on them.

I remember when Cantonguy worked third shift and him thejake and I would highjack threads and post back and forth all night long and never talk about anything that the thread was made for.... lol