Ford did not take any money but they borrowed a ton before the crash......they have done well. The point I was making is that Romney took credit for something he opposed at the time......he did not favor government intervention......the bankruptcy worked because of federal guarantees.....w/o that private capital would not have touched this........

The recovery has not been what we hoped for but the recession did end.......
Fast and Furious was a stupid idea.......I have no evidence Obama knew about it and neither do you......
The administration saved the auto industry......
The administration has imposed financial reforms on the Wall Street banks that wrecked the economy.......
The administration had Congress adopt the most important health care reform in U.S. history.....we are the only industrialized nation not to insure the health of our people.......
The administration cut taxes on over 95% of Americans......
The adminstration is exiting Iraq......
The administration has a solid plan to leave Afghan in the hands of the people who live there.....
The administration killed Osama bin Laden......
The administration has basically destroyed the leadership and functionality of al Qaeda.....
The administration has begun the transition of war from large engagements to hi-tech targeted ops....they are very effective......
The administration is pressuring terrorists in Yemen (including killing that criminal who advised the underwear bomber).......
The adminstration has helped (with NATO) get rid of the criminal Ghadafi......

That will do for now........

Yes they would have survived but the survival would have been a life support type of deal......there was no private capital in 2008-2009 to invest in those two firms....you know this. It is not a myth or a lie. Serious people said Chrysler would be liquidated period.......

Fast & Furious: No PROOF that Obama knew yes, proof that Holder (his guy) knew yes. Holder still claims that he does not know who authorized it.

The administration did not save the auto industry, the tax payers did, and that have not been paid back yet.

Wall Street banks.......ever hear of J.P. Morgan?

Obamacare? The bill that 65-70% of American people dislike? The 2,700 page bill that was unread by the people who passed it and of which Pelosi said: "You have to pass the bill to find out what's in it." That legislation? Are you serious? It's going to cost the tax payers almost a trillion dollars and their health care as business after business discontinue that benefit. Hold up other (nearly bankrupt) nations as examples to be emulated? That is a joke, right? Look at the economic conditions of those nanny states. Some examples.

Cut taxes on 95% of people. I don't know where you got those numbers unless you are referring to the BUSH tax cuts. Also, businesses of every kind are being buried with new rules and regs (enforced by unelected czars) and the costs associated with them. Please don't even try to defend Obama's economy. Also and very importantly, whatever money Obama claims that he has put or left in the tax payers pockets is a complete lie. He has deliberately (he promised that during the 2008 campaign) allowed gas and energy prices to rise so much that whatever he has "saved" the tax payers has been taken from them. Every time he (the EPA and environmental nuts) closes a coal plant, hundreds of people lose their jobs and electricity costs rise. Wait until we see the brown outs that will occur because of the lost production of the coal plants as we wait for decades for green energy to pick up the slack. Some shell game.

Exiting Iraq & Afghanistan...we'll see. Besides, he's only trying to adhere to the time table Bush established. Also, Obama can't say enough that we are puling out by 2014. Great move...tell your enemy what you are going to do.

Bin Laden was killed in large part because of the apparatus Bush set up, but the classless, narcissistic, egomaniacal Obama did not even have the decency to acknowledge Bush's role.

Al Qaeda? Come on. How naive are you? They are very patient. If it takes them 5-10 years for the next massive strike, they are very content with that.

High tech operations...you mean drones, right? Obama takes the easy and politically safe option which results in no prisoners being taken. Bush wanted to capture those terrorist leaders for interrogation purposes. Maybe Obama has figured out how to question dead people including the "underwear" architect. How much "singing" did he do after the drone got him?

All he accomplished was he replaced Ghadafi with the even more dangerous Muslim Brotherhood.

That will do for now. Being a liberal is very difficult because you can't use facts or logic in defending socialism, a system that has historically failed everywhere.

YOU better come up with something better. You are embarrassing yourself.

It is interesting that the socialist Obama, screwed the GM bond holders but took care of the unions who HELPED cause GM's demise.

I don't know how anyone can presume to know that we would be better off in a McCain presidency. Fortunately, this isn't a "Choose your Own Adventure" where we can just skip back and find out.
There is not an individual alive who can purge the waste, fraud, and abuse from government. Corruption runs too deep on every level, local and federal. At least now we can see the impact of funneling 100s of billions of dollars through the Pentagon for war and occupation. Under McCain, I'm sure that would somehow still be a "contingency", amount to be verified later.

I have no proof that Obama knew about fast and furious......you don't either.
The administration did save GM and Chrysler.....taxpayers have been paid most of it and will get it all.......
Yes I have heard of JPM....you have a point? Doubtful......
The h/c reform is not perfect but it will provide coverage to millions of Americans.......there is no doubt that will happen........What nanny states? Do they have names?
95% of Americans did in fact get tax cuts either through credits, reduction on payroll taxes, etc........it is a big lie that Obama raised taxes....he did not......
"Unelected czars"? They are adminstrators like Cabinet officers......they enforce laws that Congress has passed.......Nicholas II does not live here...oh never mind......
We have been in Afghan since 2001......you advocate staying forever? There is little support for that war.......
Obama called Bush about Osama....Bush said he made the right call. Bush failed to get this criminal from 2001-2009........Obama said he would get him and he did.......
Al Qaeda is a danger.......much reduced but still......
Hi tech ops are cost efficient.......you worry about the budget? The underwear bomber was taken in case you did not notice.......he tried to blow up a plane....his mentor was killed not "lawyered up" executed.....thought your type would approve.......
He did not replace Gadhafi the Libyan people own that country....we don't. You want an occupation of Libya? You best put on your thinking cap.......

liberalism is not socialism......ever heard of Marx? Ever read him......stop making a fool of yourself........socialism is government ownership of the means of production.......liberalism is a more active role for government within the private enterprise system.......you are an ignoramus.

I have never defended socialism.....it is a terrible economic system......yes it failed everywhere. That is why it is extinct....really you don't even know what socialism is........

Standard politics......you reward your supporters like Bush did......nothing new here. Bush also rewarded his bank pals with TARP.....remember? Thought not......he also rewarded Cheney's "Blackwater" with endless war......etc.......turn off FOX "news" and read a book w/o pictures for a change.......here is a start: Henry Paulson (Bush's Sec of Treas) "On the Brink"

......the bankruptcy worked because of federal guarantees.....w/o that private capital would not have touched this........
............

this is not true. if though you wanted to keep the union contracts intact you are right. no company would want to buy GM if they also had to honor the union contracts. without the contracts, they would have got offers.

you really think thre are not investors that wouldn't buy if the price is set right? you unload alot of their contracts and gm becomes more attractive to many. its the heavy burden of the pensions and healthcare that scares investors because it places gm costs too high to be competitive.

so partially right. if you want to protect unions, no prvt company would touch them with these kept in place. thats probably why it ended up with taxpayers paying for the bankruptcy,because obama doesn't care whether we get sc rewed or not. he sees all that union money and its hard for a pol to say no and go through regular lawful bankruptcy.

I thought you were in favor of raising taxes, not cutting them - why do you consider cutting taxes on 95% of the population as an accomplishment - I thought the Bush tax cuts were bad, but Obama cutting taxes is good?

We have been through this one million times......what I am saying is that in the Fall of 2008 (especially after the failure of Lehman) and into winter of 2009 the credit markets were frozen. Banks would not even loan money to quality applicants......a dealer in New Hampshire (cars) said his bank told him to get any loans he would have to put up 20% of the value in cash....he had been doing business with this bank for years and they told him basically they trusted no one (especially other banks)......you act like you don't know this but you do........I bought a new car in January 2009 there was no one in the place besides me......
So where would this private capital have come from.......?

I think there were a lot of the Obama tax cuts that were good......I also think extending the Bush tax cuts was a mistake.......the Bush tax cuts were a terrible idea in 2001 and even worse in 2003........by then we were in two wars and cutting taxes? The results were predicatable the National Debt basically doubled........

a dealer in New Hampshire (cars) said his bank told him to get any loans he would have to put up 20% of the value in cash....he had been doing business with this bank for years and they told him basically they trusted no one (especially other banks)......you act like you don't know this but you do........I bought a new car in January 2009 there was no one in the place besides me......
So where would this private capital have come from.......?
.............

yes, car dealerships were part of problem. in case you are not familar, alot of them were closed down with this saving of union jobs (I guess car dealerships don't pay enough to the obama re electoin campaign). this problem of too many dealers is not the issue. you seem to believe no one would buy GM. why? GM would file chapter 11 reorganization ,no liquidation. this would have though made the union contracts void, which was why unions didn't want this. notice though, biden admitted recently that jobs were in deed lost with what happened anyway. obama saved no jobs, the company reorganized, the only difference was the normal way is to void union contracts so companies can become more competitive. obama decided to instead keep the union contracts and use taxpayer money to help them. good for unions, not good for taxpayers.

for chrysler, chapter 7, liquidation, would have been the way to go. they were liquadated, the difference again was union contracts were kept where normally a company buying them wouldn't be burdened with them. but obama again to the rescue, and taxpayer money was used to sweeten the deal so those valuable union contracts could be saved.

no jobs were saved. union contracts though were. cost to taxpayers? about 14 billion will be lost.

There was no auto bailout in January 2009.......it was the end of the Bush term.......I bought a Ford.....they were never bailed out. Since then I traded the Ford for a better car......the point was no one was loaning money after the Crash.......guess there was too much "uncertainty" or maybe a lot of certainty i.e. auto sales tanked.......

union contracts were adjusted as you know......

The Right only hates unions because unions are overwhelmingly Democrats. If Romney suddenly got the endorsement of the AFL-CIO, the UAW, and the others, they’d LOVE unions. Every decision they make, every opinion they get from their media leaders on AM radio is based on “red” vs. “blue”

There was no auto bailout in January 2009..
............

the tarp money was used by obama to bail out GM. although the tarp money is part of the 09 budget, it was obama that spent it and lost 14 billion we can't get back from the GM gift.

union contracts were adjusted as you know......
..........

yes, not nullified like they usually are when filing bankruptcy. obama didn't save GM from bankrutpcy, just had the terms of it more favorable to unions at taxpayer expense.

Yes they are.....Unions are not perfect but the idea is long part of American law......collective bargaining is what allows working people to have representation. The right wing folks want to get rid of Unions to maximize their power over workers......here: take it or leave it. That is what they think is right.....