Ron Paul has provided the arguments, arguments that you have ignored.
You've been given plenty of facts and arguments, liar, so stop lying.
Furthermore, you've proven how far you're willing to go in your quest to uphold and protect Obama while coincidentally disregarding the fact Obama $%@$@ all over the US Constitution.
Obama and his pals stole trillions from Americans; Obama and the Federal Reserve enslaved Americans under mountains of debt; Obama has violated every American's right to his/her private property, but you would classify all of that under *Minor Complaints*, then you would proceed to pretend the Welfare clause justifies Obama's unconstitutional actions, unfordable projects, and ridiculous litany of obnoxious crimes.
YOU'RE SICK AND WRONG!
You would sooner downplay/misrepresent the significance of Obama's extreme violations than give Ron Paul the respect he deserves. Ron Paul has been operating within the confines of the US Constitution, as his job demands, as no other candidate has been willing to do, but you would pretend Obama is the one that deserves accolades.
You would blissfully support Obama: a pathological liar; a war criminal; a serial murderer; an advocate for slavery; a thief who helped steal tens of trillions of US dollars from poor Americans; a crony-capitalist; a person who funded disgusting crimes against women, such as: kidnappings, forced abortions, forced inoculations, and forced sterilizations; a person who increased taxes by burying everybody under mountains of debt; a person who increased free-trade for his corporatist buddies while hindering trade for the poor; a person who has increased outsourcing; a person at war with every individual's rights to be an individual; a person who has frequently subjected America to unelected internationals; a globalist building a militarized police state around the entire globe; a person protecting the opium/heroin industry while waging an unconstitutional war against the [LEGAL] marijuana industry; a person who won't allow Americans to grow hemp for fuel and cheaper biodegradable products; a person who wants a Chinese-style Internet; a person who wants a kill-switch for the Internet; a person who installed Al Qaeda into Libya; a person who stupidly gave America's most advanced stealth technologies to Iran, Russia, and China; a person dying to drag the world into WWIII.
Your retarted definition of *being realistic/logical* is: 'Yes, Obama won't do anything about the Federal Reserve. Yes, Obama won't do anything about the endless occupations/wars/crimes. Yes, Obama will start more wars. Yes, Obama is a liar and Evil. Yes, Obama is a thief, a corporatist, and a crony-capitalist. Yes, Obama is building a massive police state. Yes, Obama is spying on Americans. Yes, Obama is turning Americans into a terrorists, prisoners, and slaves. Yes, Obama will assassinate Americans. Yes, Obama will bury the country under more debt and taxes. Yes, Obama will spend money America doesn't have. Yes, Obama doesn't give a flying #$!# about the US Constitution. Yes, Obama won't do anything positive for America. Yes, Obama will bankrupt America and send the entire country into the toilet, but ... Obama will force me to buy health insurance, so Obama is just practical, like me!'
No, dalepolley, you're a soulless robot, an anti-American, and an imbecile. You're not the least bit logical, but you support the tyrannies of chaotic demons/devils -- Evils of the worst kind.
"Ron Paul has provided the arguments, arguments that you have ignored."
I haven't ignored Ron Paul. I have listened to him for years, and have given his policy proposals ample consideration. That's why I am better able than you to articulate an actual argument for Ron Paul's candidacy. However, although I agree with Ron Paul on certain points of foreign policy and civil liberties, I am not anywhere near convinced that the totality of his policy proposals would be beneficial to the vast majority of United States citizens.
"You've been given plenty of facts and arguments, liar, so stop lying."
Calling me names and pointing your figurative finger in my face isn't persuasive to me. You'll have to try another tack.
"Obama and his pals stole trillions from Americans; Obama and the Federal Reserve enslaved Americans under mountains of debt; Obama has violated every American's right to his/her private property, but you would classify all of that under *Minor Complaints*"
I am tremendously disappointed with President Obama in a number of areas. However, you're not presenting an accurate critique of the President. Rather, you are presenting a series of gross exaggerations and distortions which you don't support with actual fact.
The fact of the matter is that the problems of our country and government extend far beyond President Obama. The problems that placed this country in its current conditions began in earnest with the election of Ronald Reagan. It was President George W. Bush, working with Ron Paul's Republican Congress, who created the DHS, TSA, started the Afghanistan War, the Iraq War, opened Guantanamo Bay, and presided over a complete economic collapse.
I certainly wish that President Obama were more different from the previous President. He has continued much of the Bush administration's foreign and economic policies. However, a great deal of responsibility for this lies with the Republican-controlled Congress. This Congress has stalled, obstructed, delayed, and filibustered any change that the President has tried to institute.
Republicans have made it all but impossible for any progress at all to be made. Then, they turn around and blame the President for not getting enough done. It's pure politics.
"You would blissfully support Obama: a pathological liar; a war criminal; a serial murderer; an advocate for slavery; a thief who helped steal tens of trillions of US dollars from poor Americans; a crony-capitalist..."
I don't "blissfully support" the President. Rather, I feel that due to the complete lunacy of every single Republican candidate for President, Ron Paul included, President Obama is actually my only option.
I'm very unhappy with Obama in a dozen different areas. That doesn't mean I'm going to run into the arms of someone like Ron Paul, who has a history of racism, who doesn't care about civil rights or women's rights, and who proposes an economic model that I believe would be utterly catastrophic to the American people.
"No, dalepolley, you're a soulless robot, an anti-American, and an imbecile. You're not the least bit logical, but you support the tyrannies of chaotic demons/devils -- Evils of the worst kind."
I'm sorry I fail to meet your lofty expectations. Sadly, I'm going to continue my troublesome habit of using my own brain and forming my own conclusions rather than copying and pasting paranoid BS from Alex Jones' website.
Obama believes he is our King, that he can spend whatever he wants on whatever he wants.
This is just from today...
Obama proposes $800 million in aid for "Arab Spring"www.reuters.com/article/2012/02/13/us-usa-budget-foreign-idUSTRE81C1C920120213
Your love for his ___EVIL___ won't save you, Obamabot!
"Obama believes he is our King, that he can spend whatever he wants on whatever he wants."
I've been to Alex Jones' website, too, so none of the paranoid hogwash you're pasting is exactly new to me.
You don't like President Obama. You think he's a Kenyan-born, Zionist, Muslim, Socialist monarch. Point noted.
My opinion remains that President Obama, while deeply flawed, is still a better option than any candidate in the Republican field. That I am disappointed in President Obama doesn't push me in the direction of Ron Paul. Although I agree with Ron Paul on certain areas of foreign policy and civil liberties, there are far too many areas where I fundamentally disagree with the Congressman. This is why I could never seriously consider voting for Mr. Paul.
I believe that like many Ron Paul supporters, you have allowed your mind to become clouded by fear. The problems we have in this country run far deeper than President Obama. What we're seeing from the White House is a continuation of many of the same policies that we have pursued for decades now.
These policies have been in place no matter which party controls Congress or the White House. That proves, to me, that our politicians are mostly figureheads who are paid to do the bidding of their corporate benefactors.
Dalepolly, exactly, what did I copy and paste from Alex Jones?
You tell me that, right now, liar!
You just can't stop lying, can you?
"Dalepolly, exactly, what did I copy and paste from Alex Jones?"
I was speaking generally. I don't know if you're actually cutting & pasting from Alex Jones' website, but that's exactly where you're getting the stuff about Barack Obama being a "king" and a "dictator" and a "monarch."
You obviously can't really think for yourself, i.e. assemble facts and data and reach your own conclusions. Therefore, you rely on others to do your thinking for you.
Think of how much time you have wasted calling me names and sending me links to YouTube. All I asked was for you to explain simply and in your own words how a Ron Paul administration would deal practically with the problems (enumerated many times in this thread) that the United States faces today.
That you haven't done so weeks into this process shows us that you are incapable of providing such an argument. Therefore, you're confined to the realm of pasting YouTube links, calling people names, and feigning righteous indignation whenever somebody calls you on your transparently obvious BS.
"Blaa blaaa blaaaah, I don't know if you're actually cutting & pasting from Alex Jones' website, bla blaa blaaaaaaaaaah."
You don't know the facts, and you don't care to know the facts, but you constantly attempt to fabricate lies and pass them off as facts.
You're a willful ignoramus. You're a willful fraud. You're full of donkey $#!^.
You've been exposed as a full-fledged liar, liar!
"YOU LIED! You don't know the facts, and you don't care to know the facts, but you constantly attempt to fabricate lies and pass them off as facts. You're a willful ignoramus. You're a willful fraud. You're full of donkey $#!^. You've been exposed as a full-fledged liar, liar! LLLLLLLLLIARRRRR!"
I'm sorry you feel that way. You still haven't convinced me to cast my vote for Ron Paul in the 2012 election.
"I'm sorry you feel that way."
You need to open the pod bay's doors, Obamabot.
You must jettison your illogical love for Obama's Evil, Obamabot.
Innocent people are dying, so you must stop lying, Obamabot.
You must follow Asimov's Three Laws, Obamabot.
"You still haven't convinced me to cast my vote for Ron Paul in the 2012 election."
Coming from an Obamabot, that is one very stunning revelation. ...NOT!
The thing is, I haven't been trying to convince you to vote for Ron Paul, but I'm merely a proud/active member of Obama's Truth Team, thus it's my sworn duty to expose your lies, along with Obama's lies.
You can read about the Truth Team, right here: www.abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2012/02/obama-campaign-launches-truth-teams
Repeatedly, you've attempted to portray yourself and Obama as *realistic and logical*, and your sham of a portrayal is a lie, LIAR.
You must stop lying, Obamabot!
"You need to open the pod bay's doors, Obamabot. You must jettison your illogical love for Obama's Evil, Obamabot. Innocent people are dying, so you must stop lying, Obamabot. You must follow Asimov's Three Laws, Obamabot."
I have, in fact, criticized the President regarding a great many issues. It doesn't follow logically that my disappointment and frustration with President Obama means I'll vote for someone like Ron Paul.
Were I to line-up the roughly twenty issues I believe are most important to the future prosperity of this country, there are about three issues where Congressman Paul and I are in strict agreement. I stridently disagree, however, with the Congressman on those other seventeen issues.
I'm sorry that you find this so difficult to accept. The fact of the matter is that there's not any Presidential ticket advocating for the precise policies I'd like to see the U.S. pursue with regards to things like Education, Transportation, Infrastructure, Fiscal Policy, Job Creation, Environment Protection, Civil Rights, Gun Rights/Control, Health Care, SSI/Medicare, etc...
Believe it or not, these are the criteria on which I judge presidential candidates. My ideal ticket would probably be Russ Feingold and Dennis Kucinich; or Bernie Sanders and Russ Feingold. Neither of those is an option.
My options are Barack Obama in the Democratic Party; and a host of candidates from the GOP who I believe all to be an unacceptable choice for President. I simply disagree with Ron Paul's take on things, i.e. that the solution lies in cutting government size and spending, and letting the "free market" solve all of our problems.
I am of the exact opposite opinion from Congressman Paul when it comes to Education, Infrastructure, and Environmental Protection. My idea of how to address Economic Growth, Job Creation, and Debt Reduction are polar opposite from Congressman Paul's.
My take is that our $15+ trillion National Debt and the economic collapse were driven by reckless tax cuts that benefited mainly corporations and the extremely rich, combined with a lack of government regulation on Wall St. banks and investment companies.
We actually had regulations in place that would have prevented the economic collapse. However, we continually stripped those regulations in the 1980's and 1990's. The Bush administration - the Bush family is caught-up in a web of financial fraud for generations - didn't even enforce financial regulations that were on the books.
Before the tax cuts, we had balanced budgets. The Reagan and Bush Tax Cuts have produced cataclysmic levels of debt. Before we deregulated the finance sector, we had three decades of economic growth, or at least economic stability. The Reagan and Bush Tax Cuts have produced, perhaps, a dozen recessions, and two full-fledged stock market collapses.
Therefore, I believe the solution has to be to raise tax and reinstate financial regulation laws.
Ron Paul, however, wants to cut federal taxes completely, and lower corporate tax rates. I believe that to do so would be insane, and would produce catastrophic consequences for the United States.
Sadly, Ron Paul is about the best option in the Republican field. And he has absolutely no chance of winning. I find Romney to be slimy, sleazy, and disingenuous. Newt Gingrich is all those same things, but even slimier and sleazier. And Rick Santorum's name really does say it all. I have no love whatsoever for Rick Santorum.
That means I'm basically stuck voting for Barack Obama again. It's arguably a very mediocre choice. I understand that Barack Obama is in the pocket of Wall St. For this one reason alone, the U.S. will never make the progress, the changes, we need to make over the next five years.
Unfortunately, I find every choice on the other side of the aisle to be either loathsome, or insane. At least Obama seems to have his faculties. He seems to have some clue what's going on. The entire Republican Party is living in an alternate reality, as far as I'm concerned.
In regard to one issue, health care, a recent visit to the doctor under a new insurance policy prompts this comment.
I knew, as we all should've known, that the healthcare "reform" promoted by the Obama Administration was an insurance company scam, against which the industry cried crocodile tears while laughing up their collective sleeves. We sat by, helpless as usual, while the "debate" between the co-conspirators -- Republicans and Democrats -- mounted a farcical simulation of opposition as they were busily writing it into law. I knew it was blessed by the insurance companies, because the proviso that would penalize all Americans who didn't buy this privately sold product reeked to high Heaven.
Well, just to inform those of you who haven't checked out your coverage since this monstrosity was enacted, I'd like you to know what I just learned after submitting a claim.
Lots of routine procedures that used to be covered as "preventive care" (i.e., the insurance companies were required by law to cover them) have been redefined. They're no longer recognized as part of your doctor's due diligence in preventing disease. They've been redefined and re-coded so that the insurance companies don't have to cover them anymore. Things that my former healthcare provider had to pay for are now my responsibility. And if you have them done, they'll be your responsibility -- unless you pay for the most expensive coverage that some insurance companies offer, but which demands premiums that most Americans can't afford. So, you're not only required by law to invest your hard-earned money in this rip-off; but what you get for your money is vastly less of a bargain.
So, if you smelled a dead rat when you heard about this "reform," your sense of smell didn't betray you.
We desperately need a complete reform of our political system, but the crooks would be presiding over the reform, so our only hope as a people is to turn our backs on both political parties and start a new party that vehemently and faithfully rejects all of their self-serving, swindling priorities and, at long last, exists to promote the welfare of the middle class, which, though dwindling rapidly, still makes up the majority of this country's population.
Sadly, I don't see this happening, ever. Long live Big Brother.
"as we all should've known, that the healthcare 'reform' promoted by the Obama Administration was an insurance company scam..."
We all should have known this, but since we live in a Plutocracy where the Ruling Class disseminates state propaganda via ABC, CBS, NBC, CNN, MSNBC, FNC, Clear Channel, and Infinity, the public didn't actually learn much of anything useful about the 2010 Affordable Care Act.
If we actually had a Free Press serving in its role as a watchdog of government, the public would have learned that so-called "ObamaCare" is basically the health care model for which Republicans have advocated since the days of Richard Nixon.
It's the law that: • Bob Dole helped write, with insurance industry help, in the 1990's. • Newt Gingrich supported in the 1990's. • Mitt Romney implemented in Massachusetts.
Mandated Care had been a Republican wet dream for decades. Of course, as soon as the law THAT THEY WROTE AND SUPPORTED was introduced by Democrats, THEIR OWN LAW was suddenly described by Republicans as a "government take-over of health care."
Mandated Care is obviously a joke. The law was written by insurance industry lobbyists. I do believe the 2010 ACA represented a slight improvement over doing nothing at all, but I also recognize that the change isn't sweeping enough to make any actual difference when it comes to bringing down health costs, which was one of the driving factors behind reform.
"We desperately need a complete reform of our political system..."
I, like you, become despondent when I look at the pitiful state of our political system, where obvious jokes like "money is speech" and "corporations are people" are the main rules by which we run our "democracy."
It's not just our politicians and media, either. We have a pitifully backwards, uneducated electorate. Have you watched the GOP debates? People cheer for god, hunting, and executions. People really don't have the slightest clue what's going on, and politicians take advantage of that.
I don't want to give-up hope, although when one looks at the situation logically, it's hard to hold-out hope, too. I believe our best chance lies in taking back the Democratic Party. The Republican Party is a lost cause. However, I think there are lessons that can be learned there.
Look at the "Tea Party." OK. It was a completely phony media construction by D*ck Armey, Karl Rove, and the Koch Bros. But let's just put that aside and pretend it was real, at least for one second. In one election cycle, the "Tea Party" was able to get all of these establishment Republicans out of office and replace them with their own incompetent, religious psychos.
I believe our best hope lies in organizing and rooting all of the Lieberman's, Baucus', Spector's, and Reid's out of the Democratic Party, and replacing them with more Feingold's, Sanders, and Kucinich's.
I just know that if we turn our back on things, they'll keep having their way with us.
I didn't see you reply till today. Sorry about that.
No, I can't in good conscience oppose anybody's choice to oppose Obama, because he's lost my vote, too. Nor can I vote for Paul, and Dale's done a good job of laying out the slew of reasons why voting for that man is suicidal. The fact is, as usual, there is no candidate that I can support. Both parties are opposite sides of the same coin, and what that coin buys is betrayal for the middle class and benefits for the corporations and the super-rich. This is pretty much a no-brainer, anyway, because when, in the long course of history, have the rich and powerful not called the tune?
All of us have particular issues that are dearest to our hearts, and mine is the preservation of the environment and the survival of the biosphere. Some people are, by nature, more detail-oriented (I'd guess you fall into that category), while others, like me, tend to see things from a broader perspective and take the long view. Both are valuable orientations and should be complementary. Lately, I've been reading some harrowing predictions about the rates of extinction among reptiles and land mammals, and the situation is dire in the extreme, all corporate propaganda to the contrary notwithstanding.
As you learned in biology class, the disappearance of a single species typically has repercussions among other species -- both animal and vegetable species -- that interacted with that lost species. The most recent studies have concluded that a staggering 20% of reptile species could be extinct by the year 2080. This is nothing less than catastrophic, if it comes to pass, in view of the ecological linkage between reptiles, plants, insects, fish and mammals. The imbeciles (your favorite pejorative certainly applies here) who minimize the destructive effects of industrialization, human predation, and habitat destruction are lobbying for the continuance of behaviors that will end in our own extinction, but they're too stupid, short-sighted, and selfish (even to the point of condemning their own grandchildren) to acknowledge what they're doing.
In the face of these critical threats, Obama has appointed a corporate shill named Ken Salazar as his Secretary of the Interior. This ba.stard seemingly has never met a mining operation, a hunting lobby, an oil company, or a ranching operation he didn't like. His latest in a long string of anti-environmental decisions is to appoint a woman named Callie Hendrickson to represent the public interest on the Bureau of Land Management's National Wild Horse and Burro Advisory Board. This b.itch is a notorious pro-slaughter advocate for the ranching interests, who supports the sale of all captured wild horses and burros to the highest bidder, typically slaughterhouses who stand to profit from their bids. In sum, Obama has been -- incredibly -- a worse steward of the environment than George Bush. I would vote for Paul before I'd vote for him, but I can't, in good conscience, vote for either.
"... Dale's done a good job of laying out the slew of reasons why voting for that man is suicidal."
That's not true. Dale hasn't been the least bit reasonable, but he has only attempted to displace reality with propagandized lies. Don't follow in his footsteps, brotherfox.
"Nor can I vote for Paul, and Dale's done a good job of laying out the slew of reasons why voting for that man is suicidal."
Dale's an idiot. Unfortunately, I let another idiot defend Ron Paul in Volumeoverload. But I'm sticking to my no politics principle. I'll do politics on a politics board, not here.