No you're not following me because I've said I don't think a night watchman should be armed and I said I don't agree with the Florida law .........but it is their law.

Okay, so you're merely saying you believe Zimmerman had a right to shoot Trayvon Martin in the chest with a pistol....

... because, Trayvon Martin was kicking his 4ss, as you see it. Right? And you believe this version of events completely, right?

And it doesn't really matter, in your mind, what happened BEFORE Taryvon Martin allegedly starting kicking Zimmerman's 4ss, right?

Legally, that is, of course.. I wouldn't want to ask you what YOU actually believe; apparently that's not up for discussion.

No , the only way I see it was ok for him to do what he did was if his story is true and he was getting his head pounded into the ground.
My opinion of it totally changes if Martin just decked him and Zimmerman retaliated by shooting him.
If you're getting the back of your head pounded into the ground any blow could end your life so it's a potential life or death situation and according to Florida law .........you can use deadly force.

What you also fail to acknowledge is in the 911 call Zimmerman says the subject is coming towards him now and reaching into his waistband, an act people would do why ? ........to make somebody think they are armed ..........no? Martin then runs, so Zimmerman should know the guy is not armed ?

So Zimmerman probably also doesn't know this kid was unarmed like all you guys just expect him to know. Or he could also fear that Martin will take his weapon when he was on top of him.

<<No , the only way I see it was ok for him to do what he did was if his story is true and he was getting his head pounded into the ground.>>

Okay, I I can understand that in a way. But still, that ignores EVERYTHING up to that point, doesn't it? What if Zimmerman, an armed adult , grabbed this teenager and then realized he bit off more than he could chew?

Is it still okay then? Legally, of course.

It matters, but if Zimmerman simply confronted him asking what he was doing there and Martin decked him, who escalated it into a physical thing then..........that would be Martin.

Like I've said before, years ago I was confronted by security in a gated community in the middle of the day and asked what I was doing there.......what did I do ......I answered the question and told the guy who I was staying with and was on my way. If I would have decked the guy for asking me a question I would have been arrested.

Maybe Martin could have simply stated I'm heading to my dads girldfriends house where I'm staying and this would have never happened........we don't know.

<<My opinion of it totally changes if Martin just decked him and Zimmerman retaliated by shooting him.>>

And what, exactly, would convince you of this?

Answer this.

No dude, try to follow me .......when I say the ONLY way I see it being ok is if he was having his head pounded into the ground...........I mean thats the ONLY way.

If Zimmerman grabbed him and then was getting his asz kicked just by punches and then retaliated by shooting him........thats murder in my opinion.

Even if Zimmerman didn't grab him, if he was just confronting him with words and Martin threw the first punch and was just punching him ......thats murder in my opinion.

If the story of getting his head pounded into the ground is not true then I have a very different outlook on this.

I have already answered that.
If they can prove he wasn't getting his head pounded into the ground, thats all I need to see Zimmerman as a murderer in this.

From "A Few Good Men"...
"Someone is dead, and they shouldn't be...Someone has to answer for it"...
Prosecutors always ask for charges way more, leaving room for negotiating...
Zimmerman will get involuntary manslaughter...
Regardless of what really happened...

That would probably be a fair outcome.

Negotiating only comes with a guilty plea. Not gonna happen. When the prosecution has already stated that they have not a single piece of evidence to disprove Zimmerman's story, he's gonna walk. Guaranteed.

We've seldom agreed on anything regarding this so far, but ....

" i think that it's possible that zimmerman was afraid that martin would be long gone by the time the police arrived ("they always get away"), and tried to detain him in some way. and if zimmerman didn't identify himself and tried to detain martin, i wouldn't blame martin for decking him."

I can see that being very possible.

In my instance yes they guy was in a security uniform, my point to that was I'm just saying no matter what time of day or color of skin you have you could be questioned in that type of community if you're not recognized as being part of it.

I also have my doubts that Zimmerman just acted cool and collective.
I think it is possible he started it, he could have chased him and brought him to the ground so Martin punching him would be less of an issue if that happened.

And the only thing I'm sticking on that doesn't make Zimmerman a murderer is if no matter who started it, if he was getting his head bashed into the ground , thats a scenario where you fear for your life , especially knowing you have a weapon this guy might be able to grab, and you don't know if the other guy is armed.

If Zimmerman was simply getting his asz kicked and there was no head being bashed into the ground.........he's a murderer in my opinion.

"In his apology yesterday, Zimmerman said, “I did not know how old he was. I thought he was a little bit younger than I am."

This contradicts his statement to the police in the phone conversations prior to the murder when he specifically described and said that Martin was a teenager. The prosecution will end up using that one.

........

if the prosecutor is stupid she might try this. the problem is that the first statement zimmerman said was before he had any good view of the kid. the second was probably after the confrontation and then he sees the boy and thinks he is dealing with someone near his age. so you have no contradiction,just clarity based on different time frames and more info available to zimmerman.

in the 911 tapes he wasnt even sure of tray's race. he said "i think he's black" also in the tapes he said teenager, and both those times was when tray's face was covered with the hood and zim was looking from inside his car, thru rain, from a distance.

on the stand he says "few years younger than me".... but the question didnt specify whether this was the immediate impression as on the tapes or AFTER tray confronted him for being followed, and the scuffle began.
.............

according to frida, a person cant change their mind with more info after being confronted. zimmeran initially said he thought he was a teenager when talking to the dispatcher from a distance. he sees him up close when attacked and he HAS to keep his first impression of the boy even if he sees him more clear now,because later frida might use that against you if you change your opinion based on a closer look.

no, he's a liar because he described martin as in his late teens to the 911 dispatcher, then when he's trying to get out of jail he suddenly claims that he thought martin was much older. he's clearly trying to downplay what was the most disturbing part of this story- that he'd murdered an unarmed teenager.

............

what you keep failing to undertand is the time frames of these two statements. one he was observing the young boy from a distant. after the fight and seeing the boy up close, do we really expect that he has to keep his same opinion as his first impression? you are grasping here for straws and I bet the prosecutor is much more smarter than you are being here and won't try to bring this up because it can be shot down easily and make the prosecution look incompetent by raising this easily refuted point.

Seeings how this is a Cubs Message Board...
And not trying to make light of all this...
I say an "Old Style" that Mr Zimmerman gets convicted of something...
And that he goes to prison...
Albeit, maybe even for less than a year...
But, he ain't walking away...
I'm not even going to begin to try to justify or blame what happened...
Zimmerman will be thrown to the wolves...
If I was in that jury pool, I would do everything I could do to avoid that trial...

How can you prove guilt beyond a reasonable doubt, when the prosecution already said they have no evidence to refute Zimmermans story? I'll take that bet but I want a Guinness when I win.

The old cliche...
The Court of Public Opinion...
A Guinness, eh?...
OK, it's the same as 5-1 odds...hehe
But I'll bet you another "Old Style" that you made a bad bet...hehe