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    • UGH. 8 more years of 4th place
  • 11/30/12
  • cjct

'So you're OK w/ Mets finishing DEAD LAST in MLB 2 yrs straight?'

As opposed to finishing second to last in the division?

... Is this a serious question?

THANK YOU, someone gets it...no make the playoffs is not making the playoffs who cares if we win 78 games or 62 games....losing is losing.

I want to get to a point in the near future that every year the mets are in a position to compete and right now we don't have the influx of young talent to do that anytime soon!

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  • 11/30/12
  • JamesHetfi3ld

Yep. If you don't make the playoffs the season was a failure, period end of sentence.

Whether it's by one game or by 20.

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  • 11/30/12
  • metsheart
"Said it in a previous thread. It could have been done in 2 years"


No other team's EVER done rebuilt in 2 yrs. But Mets should've/ could've?? HOW???

You have NO idea if AZ , TOR or any other teams would've done what you want trades to be. For example -- WHY would AZ take Wright in last yr of contract when as FA he'd get mega $$$??? And they're gonna give up not just Upton but Skaggs TOO?? Boston's giving up Lavarnaway for 38 yr old pitcher???

Ellsbury's gonna be FA when he's 30 yrs old (after 2013 season). That would be wrong move. Mets need to get YOUNGER. Build for FUTURE. To compete for next 10 yrs. NOT next yr!!!
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  • 11/30/12
  • metsheart
"The Nats were able to trade for guys like Gio Gonzalez and Denard Span (if they didn't have good young pieces) and then sign Jayson Werth becaue they had the flexability with no long term contracts. But none of that wouldn't have happened if they didn't draft well and develope there young prospects."



How many yrs were Nats rebuilding when those trades were made?

So we agree drafting well & developing players is the way to go. THEN sign FA or 2 when closer to end of rebuild!!!
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  • 11/30/12
  • metsheart
"You couldnt pull off those trades on XBox"


Or Fantasy League.
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  • 11/30/12
  • metsheart
No difference to you between being DEAD LAST of all 30 MLB teams & being 5 gms under .500 like they were in 2011 or 3 gms under .500 in 2010??? Being competitve for at least 1st 1/2 like 2011 & 2012???

There is to me. And many other Met fans.

And again -- no guarantee on prospects that come in trade. Very few prospects ever even get to The Show. Much less be All-Star. Like Wright.
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  • 11/30/12
  • metsheart
I agree Mets need to get more young talent. To fill holes. And to trade. But let's see what else this offseason brings before we start saying Mets are getting it wrong.

More to the point let's see what happens in next 2-3 yrs. It's all about long term. Not trying to fix everything right now. For long haul to compete for next 10 yrs (or even more)!!
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  • 11/30/12
  • TheChosen1

>>No difference to you between being DEAD LAST of all 30 MLB teams & being 5 gms under .500 like they were in 2011 or 3 gms under .500 in 2010??? Being competitve for at least 1st 1/2 like 2011 & 2012???

There is to me. And many other Met fans.<<

Not really for me. They either attempt to be competitive and make the playoffs or they don't. 3rd, 4th, 5th....it's all the same to me....failure.

>>And again -- no guarantee on prospects that come in trade. Very few prospects ever even get to The Show. Much less be All-Star. Like Wright.<<

Of course there are no gaurantees, but it's the best way to re-build. Continuously filling the roster with mediocre players won't get us to where we want to be.

For the record, I love DW. Of course I want him on this team, but the reality is, he ONLY makes sense for THIS team if we are gonna SPEND money to fill a very good roster around him. If not, he would have been more valuable to the future of this franchise if he were traded.

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  • 11/30/12
  • metsheart
" don't make the playoffs the season was a failure, period end of sentence"


Disappointment yes. "Failure" no IMO.

Watching team compete for playoff spot for whole season but missing by couple of games (like LAD this yr) is same to you as finishing #30 in MLB??
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  • 11/30/12
  • metsheart
See my last post.

http://www.forums.mlb.com/n/pfx/forum.aspx?tsn=121&nav=messages&webtag=ml-mets&tid=545680

Continuously filling roster w/ mediocre players won't get it done. It's true. What makes you think Mets can't improve w/ trades? With drafting well? Has to be top 10 pick to be good?? Wright was #38 pick. Ike was #18. Mets can't find another scrap heap gem? Like Dickey was?

People keep saying they want FO to get creative. Good chance they will in next 2-3 yrs. Gotta build more 1st before blockbuster trades can happen. Look at other teams rebuilds. Took 4-6 yr path to have "overnight success"!!
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  • 11/30/12
  • JamesHetfi3ld

Because they need a 3B, and they wanted to trade Upton because they have talented OFs waiting in the minors. Skaggs may be out of reach, true. There are FIVE other pitching prospects to choose from.

Boston always needs to win now, as such they have been prone to give away younger talent to fill an immediate need.

Ellsbury fills a need, Flores takes over at 3b.

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  • 11/30/12
  • metsheart
Don't think any of your trades would happen in real world. Sorry.

BoSox rebuilding too. Not a "win now" outlook for next yr.

Ellsbury DOESN'T fill need LONG TERM. Turns 30 in Sept 2013. FA after 2013 season. WRONG direction for Mets at this point!!

Not to mention Flores is unproven. So Sox won't give up proven MLB player for him.

You're dreaming with your magic trades that'll have Mets competitive for 2013!!
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  • 11/30/12
  • metsheart
"Because they need a 3B, and they wanted to trade Upton because they have talented OFs waiting in the minors"


And no other teams will offer more for Upton & Skaggs (or other top P prospect)???

Edited 11/30/12   by  metsheart
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  • 11/30/12
  • cholula

" The Mets best 3rd basemen of all time"

How quickly you forget Robin Ventura!

Unfortunately, your handle says it all: Jets_Mets. At the moment, both teams are losers.

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  • 11/30/12
  • JamesHetfi3ld

Apparently not, because it's been well advertised that Upton is on the market.

And I wasn't talking about trading Flores, I was talking about the fact that he would take over for Wright after he left.

Fine then, forget Boston. Still leaves a win-now Toronto in search of a SP. Perfect fit.

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  • 11/30/12
  • PrayedforBay

One big contract doesn't hamstring a team. Thats flat out ridiculous. Having multiple contracts like that will.

You are starting to see Alderson's plan take shape. Waiting for the previous regimes contracts to expire so he can spread that money out; 2-3 players for the price of 1 Santana.

This plan could come into effect sooner if the Wilpons would let Alderson spend a little more this off-season.

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  • 11/30/12
  • metsheart
So because Upton's on the market that means no other teams have more to give AZ for Upton than Mets???

Toronto probably wants more than just one 38 yr old pitcher for 23 yr old d'Arnaud ranked among best catching prospects. Even if 38 yr old won Cy Young. Would want another MLB SP and/ or BP arm. Again -- other teams looking for same things as Mets have more to offer for top prospects/ young proven MLB players than Mets now.
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  • To:All
  • 11/30/12
  • cjct

Braves are rumored to possibly giving up Simmons for Justin Uptson - Braves are better

Phillies are possibly rumored to be acquiring Josh Hamilton - Phillies are better

Nats are rumored to possibly going after Greinke (that rotation!) - Nat are better

I don't see how we honestly can make enough move to compete with these guys over the next 2-3 years. I just don't see it!

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  • 11/30/12
  • metsheart
Are Mets in same position organization-wise as Braves? As Phils? As Nats?

Ever seen a rebuild take less than 4-6 yrs?? Mets just finished yr #2. Nats were WORST team in baseball in yr #2 of their rebuild. Followed by another dismal yr. But they're competitive now. And will be for next bunch of yrs!! Becuase they had patience & stayed the course!!!

Patience.

Edited 11/30/12   by  metsheart
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  • 11/30/12
  • JamesHetfi3ld

Oh, great. By the time we're in year 6 of your 'plan' (note- you never made one) Wright will be 4 years into his contract and 34 years old.

Fantastic.

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