Every year I get an email from Pirate management telling me that I shouldn't worry, the Pirates are going to be better, and every year they finish last. I just received in my inbox the latest incarnation of what I have entitled The Plea Not To Flee. The current Pirate ownership is nothing but a conglomerate of fast talking car salesmen...and they're darn good at it too. They have managed to fill seats with little more than beer swilling softball teams...and declare poverty. Where does all the money go? They sure don't pay people who know how to play baseball. Plain and simple, the Pirates stink! And this year's pathetically hopeful blueprint is little more than a smoke screen for another decade of putrid baseball. Putting together a Major League roster of 25 Triple A underachievers is not the yellow brick road to success. What has it been? Eighteen? Nineteen? Twenty years since the franchise accomplished anything worth mentioning? And I don't consider success to be a season of .500 baseball or another Rookie of the Year winner. I want to watch winning baseball! Period! For that I must follow another city's team, like the Yankees, who have a tradition of winning, not whining. Call me after the All-Star break if the Pirates have a five game lead in the NL Central. Otherwise, leave me alone and let me go watch my local Little League team. More action there.

marsface,

Frustrating yes, but you can"t beat a day at the ballpark. Especially PNC. I am just as peeved as you about the lack of [everything] displayed by the Pirate ownership towards making an actual commitment to building a winner, but when I get to my lowest point I remind myself that Pittsburgh is still a Major League Baseball city.

It could have easily gone the other way a few years ago and Pittsburgh Fans would be complaining about their triple-A affiliate.. Thank Gawd it didn't...

Therefore, I will stick by the Bucs until some sanity is restored upstairs...No matter how long it takes.

SEMPER FI PITTSBURGH

Well, I wish you well while watching the Pirates lose in your old age. Let's hope Medicare is still around for when the blood pressure rises. And as far as sticking with a team through thick and thin, that attitude is like drug money to dealer. The current management will never be flushed out if there's money to be made fielding a loser. You get rid of losing ownership by forcing them to dig deep into their pockets to honor financial obligations. When the profit/loss statement heads south, they sell! And hopefully to someone who wants to win! This ownership group has shown little desire to win. They never get mad. They never shout. They never fire anyone in anger to make an example. Losing is a way of life for them. They don't mind it. Well, I do. I hate to lose. That is the essence of competitive sport. You can't win if you don't mind losing. As a matter of note, Pirate ownership had the right idea last year when they cleaned house to start fresh. The only problem was that they cleaned the wrong house! Management should have been the first to go so as to set an example to the players that they are serious about winning. Ah, but what the heck. The fans will always come back and spend money no matter how the Pirates perform. Right?

mars,
Your first 2 post have been very, very good, but I feel that I should inform you that you have considerable distance to go to catch dan69nad for Rookie Poster of the Year in 2009.

I shall seek him out :)

It takes you a week to read your email?

The current pirates ownership took over in 2007. 2009-2007 is not equal to 6 years.

And before you say Nutting was on the ownership team before that, how come nobody complained about Nutting back then? If he was in charge of everything, why was all the criticism back then levied at McClatchy? Nobody ever brought Nutting's name up until 2007. You can't revise history and say now that he was in control back then. McClatchy was in control till 2007. That's when Nutting took over.

2 years is a little quick to judge a plan whose main focus is developing talent.

Paga

I've been complaining about the Nuttings since 2003.

How many years then? Honestly?

Should we start to see improvement after 3 years, 4 years? There has to be some statute of limitations on leeway.

Also, plenty of people were talking about Nutting pre-2007. That is not an accurate statement.

Paga

The Nutting family took control of the team in the off-season between 2002-2003. The Commissioner made the Nuttings step up and accept their responsibility in 2007.

My point is that the main focus of everyone's criticism was McClatchy. Case in point McHostage's name comes from McClatchyhostage, not Nuttinghostage.

Everyone wants to go back and say that Nutting was the one that was in charge around that time but while he was a minority owner, I don't recall much talk of his name coming up. Sure there was some, but many were of the opinion that McClatchy was the guy pulling the strings. Now it sounds like everyone wants to act like Nutting's been in control the whole time.

And as far as how many years we should give them, I would say that if we don't at least have a winning team or what looks to be a winning team by the end of 2011, then open up the floodgates for criticism on them. Mid 2012 at the latest, because then you'd see guys like Sanchez coming up.

The point is it's not fair to criticize their plan right now because a lot of the key players they acquired have barely played a full year at the ML level. People like Alvarez, Sanchez, Tabata, Gorkys Hernandez, Alderson, etc.

I still remember most people criticizing McClatchy up until he relinquished control of the team in 2007. That's where McHostage's name comes from.

My recollection is there were plenty of people who had a general distrust of Ogden Nutting, then his son Bob.

This was in 2006-ish. I truly believe MLB pressured Bob to step up to the plate when he did so and said it was inappropriate to question his commitment.

As far as the plan, I would accept the plan if I saw more evidence of commitment to the plan. The Sano signing was the breaking point for me.

You can't underfund the MLB club and say you're going to pour those resources into LA, then swing and miss.

It is indeed fair to criticize the plan every step of the way until they prove the doubters wrong.

Just my opinion of course.

You get rid of losing ownership by forcing them to dig deep into their pockets to honor financial obligations.

Never happen. The way its currently set up, if attendance goes down all they have to do is cut payrole. Nutting is virtually gaurenteed to make money. All he has to do is field a team of league minimum players and pocket the money. It doesn't matter if not one person shows up to a game, he will still make money.

And your right, a certain amount of people will watch anyways. I wont. But thats not the issue. As far as Nutting is concerned profit is THE only issue and he can't lose.

people DID complain about Nutting back then. Just not as often. Commentaries on the radio more than once complained about the Nuttings involvment in the team and what it might mean for the future of the franchise.

Paga

And that is where the beginning of my feud with that group began. I was telling them they were blaming the wrong person. They didn't listen.

sanoBuc,

Somehow the Sano debacle smells more like a decaying Minnesota moose carcass than anything else. I hope the kid, or young adult has a great career. I'm just not so sure the Pirates botched this. I say that because it was Minnesota who initially questioned his age.

As far as I know, the Pirates are the Nutting's largest investment. The Nuttings have been in business for almost as long as the Pirates have been in existence. I'd say the proximity is important. Morgantown is close enough.

This is total speculation. I do not believe the Nuttings have the deep pockets to maintain a winning franchise. About the only Pittsburgh group that could have possibly taken a shot at a big piece of the Pirates are the Rooneys.

I wonder if perhaps the new Steeler ownership structure could possibly take a piece of the Pirates?

BEAT 'EM BUCS

Beis

The NFL frowns upon dual league ownership. They forced Hieznga to sell the Marlins. There was another owner that part of a hockey team and they forced him to sell that.

There are MLB, NBA, and NHL owners that are crossed between those three leagues.

g1oBuc,

Yes that is correct. However, one of the NFL's most influential, if not the single most powerful owner is the Rooneys. They are cone the architects of what is extremely successful in the NFL

Now, and this is just speculation, the restructuring of the Steeler's ownership seems to relinquish quite a few dollars. perhaps, being one of Pittsburgh's most influential families, the Pirates might be an excellent investment. I just do not see Nutting having the deep pockets many posters and others believe they do. I'm not so sure the Rooney's do either, by themselves. It is Baseball.

Who else in Pittsburgh could be a good suitor? Baseball is not football, however they do rely on very similar criteria..sport's fans and media dollars.

BEAT 'EM BUCS

Beis

Well, since the NFL forced three of the Rooney's to sell their shares of the Steelers, they may be interested. However, MLB has a rule that people involved in the gambling business are not allowed to participate in MLB at any level. This includes owners of Race Tracks, which those Rooney brothers chose to stay involved in as opposed to keeping there Steeler shares.