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    • Outfield Status
  • To:All
  • 2/2/13
  • jsmet
So as of now the outfield is Byrd Cowgill Duda? Who will they think of next to bring infrom the scrap heep ?
Lol
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Message 548042.2 was deleted
  • 2/2/13
  • JoseJose
Open tryouts start at Citi in March. To fit the budget and "the plan", the winner has to work at the Shake Shack as well as in left field.
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  • 2/2/13
  • thebobymon
Tatis.
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  • 2/2/13
  • FromTheRedSeats

"they tried to get Upton/Kubel"

How do you know they "tried" to get Upton and Kubel"?

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Message 548042.6 was deleted
  • 2/2/13
  • drjoe807
Total incompetence on the part of Alderson for not bringing in at least one average major league outfielder....He says its not our strong suit...while the truth is its not even a good MINOR LEAGUE outfield...
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  • 2/2/13
  • metsheart
"incompetence on the part of Alderson for not bringing in at least one average major league outfielder"



ALW Champion A's w/ 94 wins in 2012 used FOUR platoons:
Catcher
1B
2B
DH


Guess what? Platoons WORK!!
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  • 2/2/13
  • murphstates
The A's platoons were almost entirely with established major league players, not 28 and 29 year-old players who couldn't crack the big leagues with other organizations.
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  • 2/2/13
  • AdrianMonk

The most obvious "move" they should have done was to keep Jason Bay. He will haunt us for years to come.
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  • 2/2/13
  • jsmet

Open tryouts start at Citi in March. To fit the budget and "the plan", the winner has to work at the Shake Shack as well as in left field.

Lol

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  • 2/2/13
  • srdiddy666
You think they'll miss him more than Andres Torres!?
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  • 2/2/13
  • drjoe807
AMEN MURPH,,,,What are some of these guys drinking????? Just keeping it real.
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  • 2/2/13
  • AdrianMonk

For sure.
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  • 2/2/13
  • srdiddy666
I don't know, between these two titans of awesomeness...
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  • 2/2/13
  • metsheart

Which of the A's platooning catchers was an "established major league player"? 29 yr old John Jaso w/ only 1 of his 4 MLB seasons w/ over 300 ABs? Or 23 yr old Derek Norris whose 1st MLB season was 2012?

Which of the A's platooning 1B was an "established major league player"? 26 yr old Chris Carter w/ a grand total of 384 PAs his whole 3 yr MLB career so far? Or 29 yr old Brandon Moss who's had only 1 of his 6 seasons w/ more than 300 PAs?




Why didn't those 27 & 28 yr olds crack their other organizations? Could be because some players just take longer than others to develop. Or could've been blocked in their other organization. Or might've had injuries that delayed their arrival but now they're fine.

Or maybe because they're not complete players. Aren't those the type players you'd platoon? If they were complete players you wouldn't need to platoon them!!

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  • 2/2/13
  • murphstates

"Which of the A's platooning catchers was an "established major league player"? 29 yr old John Jaso w/ only 1 of his 4 MLB seasons w/ over 300 ABs? Or 23 yr old Derek Norris whose 1st MLB season was 2012?"

That's a difficult question to answer since John Jaso played for the Seattle Mariners and Derek Norris was Kurt Suzuki's backup until Suzuki was traded to the Nats in August.

"Which of the A's platooning 1B was an "established major league player"? 26 yr old Chris Carter w/ a grand total of 384 PAs his whole 3 yr MLB career so far? Or 29 yr old Brandon Moss who's had only 1 of his 6 seasons w/ more than 300 PAs?"

This one is a bit easier since both players were actually on the A's in 2012. Brandon Moss had played 250 games in the major leagues. Chris Carter was in the A's organization since 2008 and had been a BA Top 100 prospect in 2009, 10 and 11.

But what's really interesting is the platoon was a result of desperation, not a plan. Neither Moss nor Carter was playing until June.

"So desperate have the A's been to find production at first base, they have started a <whopping seven players there this season.

Finally, they may have found an effective combo in two players who didn't join the team until last month. Brandon Moss and Chris Carter are sharing the position in a left-right platoon, and the early returns show that first base is no longer an offensive wasteland for the A's."

http://www.mercurynews.com/athletics/ci_21014032/oakland-have-revolving-door-at-first-base

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  • 2/3/13
  • metsheart

"Derek Norris was Kurt Suzuki's backup until Suzuki was traded to the Nats in August."


29 yr old George Kottaras was platoon catcher from trade deadline on for A's. Kottaras is a lifetime .220 hitter. Hardly an "established major leaguer."
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" Brandon Moss had played 250 games in the major leagues."


But only 1 yr out of 6 MLB seasons as full time player. Again -- Hardly an "established major leaguer" like you claimed.
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"Chris Carter was in the A's organization since 2008 and had been a BA Top 100 prospect in 2009, 10 and 11."


Being a PROSPECT is NOT an "established major leaguer" like you claimed.
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Also from that July 5th Mercury News article you posted...

"Although the A's have 16 home runs from their first basemen this season -- ranking them third in the American League -- questions about the position remain legitimate.

Moss, 28, came into this season with a .236 batting average and just 15 homers and 78 RBIs in 249 major league games. He endured a recent 1-for-17 stretch that interrupted his home run tear, and he has struck out 27 times in 24 games with Oakland.

Carter, 25, did not impress in four previous brief stints with the A's, entering this season with .167 average and 41 strikeouts in 39 career games. But Carter made mechanical adjustments with Sacramento hitting coach Greg Sparks, the aim being to stay back better and not be fooled by off-speed pitches.

Moss, who wasn't promoted from Triple-A Sacramento until June 6, has been responsible for the majority of this sudden production at first. He's hit 10 homers in his first 24 games with the team, the second-most in Oakland history over that span behind Dave Kingman's 11 in 1984.

Carter, a right-handed hitter, was called up June 29 and is starting against left-hander pitchers. He homered in his first two games and is 5 for 11 overall.

Both players helped the A's complete a three-game sweep of the Boston Red Sox this week for the first time since 2008. Moss went 6 for 8 with two homers and five RBIs, while Carter had two hits in Tuesday's comeback win and scored the tying run.


"For guys that aren't everyday regulars at the big league level, I think giving them the best matchups right now is probably the way to go," manager Bob Melvin said.


"Moss agrees with his manager that platooning with Carter benefits both players.

"Both of us are in that situation where we want to show that we belong here," Moss said. "Whether it's part of a platoon or whatever, we're happy to get at-bats and try to make the most of them." "




EXACTLY! Thanks for proving my point about platoons being very productive!!!

See SI article:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2012/writers/joe_lemire/09/26/oakland-athletics-moneyball-platoon/index.html

"The new Moneyball: How the A's built a surprise contender"


"Platoon advantages

"As a result, the A's have had 3,840 plate appearances in which a righthanded batter faced a lefthanded pitcher or a lefty batter opposed a righty on the mound; that's the second-largest total of opposite-handed plate appearances in the majors behind only the Giants and accounts for 65 percent of Oakland's total PAs.

Oakland has benefited from these favorable matchups. Among lefthanded bats, Brandon Moss has 17 home runs and a .958 OPS in his 215 PAs against righthanders, Seth Smith has 12 home runs and an .823 OPS in his 349 PAs and George Kottaras -- who hit a game-winning homer Tuesday night -- has six HRs and an .803 OPS in 65 PAs. Conversely, Jonny Gomes has 10 HRs and a .938 OPS in 184 PAs against southpaws, Chris Carter has five HRs and a .921 OPS in his 103 PAs and Collin Cowgill has one homer and an .844 OPS in 51 PAs."




See also Bill James Online:

http://www.billjamesonline.com/stats279/

"Platoon Tendencies"

"Managers play the platoon advantage as often as they can. With a right-handed starter on the mound, the opposing manager will look to play his lefty hitters, to the extent that he has that flexibility. Additionally, every bullpen features at least one lefty specialist whose sole purpsose is to enter the game in the late innings to face a particularly menacing left-handed slugger.

Why go to so much effort? As has been demonstrated for quite some time, hitters fare much better when facing opposite-handed pitchers. In 2010, right-handed pitchers allowed a .710 On-base Plus Slugging (OPS) when facing righty batters, but a .750 OPS when facing left-handed batters. The split is reversed for lefty pitchers."






Whether they're planned before the season or not -- Platoons WORK!!!

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  • 2/3/13
  • murphstates

If platoons are such a wonderful concept why did it take the failure of everyday players for the A's to employ them? Why didn't this new variety of "Moneyball" rise out of statistical analysis instead of the need to replace everyday players who failed to produce?

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  • 2/3/13
  • stearnsy12
actually the OF is Duda,Kirk,and Baxter according to the depth chart posted during Kevin Burkhardt's interview with Sandy on Metsblog
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