• Welcome Guest
New York Mets

Welcome to the New York Mets.
Before posting, please review our Message Board Guidelines

    • Let's not coddle our young pitchers.
  • To:All
  • 2/2/13
  • AdrianMonk

Keep expectations high. If a pitcher is repeatedly taken out after six innings and two runs, his numbers may look okay, but he's really nothing to brag about. Harvey and Niese, and later Wheeler, should be encouraged to go deep into games and take responsibility for winning. We don't want them looking over their shoulder in the 6th inning expecting to be bailed out.
  • Reply to this Message
Message 548037.2 was deleted
  • 2/2/13
  • thagreat1
if we can repeatedly take out Santana after the sixth after he's given up a couple runs we can make him look like a real stud and get back some quality for him this July..good idea.
  • Reply to this Message
  • 2/2/13
  • MetObserver
I don't think they coddle pitchers. But the pitch count still rules and especially for young pitchers. If they reach that 100 pitch mark and it is only the sixth inning they will be taking them out for sure. If Niese or Gee pitch I think that they will be allowed to exceed that count by a little and even Marcum if his elbow is strong. But not Santana, Harvey or Wheeler when he comes up.
  • Reply to this Message
  • 2/2/13
  • fargol

" should be encouraged to go deep into games and take responsibility for winning."

How deep?

  • Reply to this Message
  • 2/2/13
  • govmule72
I tend to agree. Pitchers used to pitch. No reason they can't now.
  • Reply to this Message
  • 2/2/13
  • KB24NYM

Honestly, I respectfully disagree.

I would cap Harvey before 200 IP this year, and Wheeler the same limit Harvey had this year.

If we were in contention (like the Nats and Strasburg last year), it'd be a different story. But we gain nothing from pushing our young guys while we battle for 3rd place in the division.

  • Reply to this Message
  • 2/2/13
  • thebobymon

>>I tend to agree. Pitchers used to pitch. No reason they can't now.<<

Simply becase there is no "inside warning pitch" anymore, that is why.

2 of those and you get to take the longest hot shower on the team.

The rules have changed, pitchers used to be bullies, now they are either fine or hitting the pine early.

  • Reply to this Message
  • 2/2/13
  • danthemetfan
The pitch count is a useless measure that is destroying pitchers, and as long as the Mets follow it they will continue to have underperforming pitchers who cant get out of jams, and also often get hurt. I say "hear hear" to AdrianMonk, and say to the starters fix your own messes, and learn to get out of your problems.
  • Reply to this Message
  • To:All
  • 2/2/13
  • fargol

Saying pitchers need to go farther like in the old days ... who's going to be the one to institute it?

What GM (and that's where it'll have to come from) will take the chance of blowing out a young prospect's arm when he makes him pitch deeper, and exceed the pitch count that pitchers probably been on since college?

It ain't gonna happen.

  • Reply to this Message
  • 2/2/13
  • danthemetfan
Nolan Ryan and whomever his GM is. More pitchers get hurt more often with limits than before. They are conditioning them to get hurt. It also conditions them to not be able to pitchout of trouble, which hurts their development. GMs will finally learn and the <idiotic notion of pitch counts will finally die.
  • Reply to this Message
  • 2/2/13
  • manor182
How did guys pitch 250 -300 innings back in the day? I think some guys are injury prone ..others have rubber arms. Most are in between. I don't think a few extra innings will blow out a pitchers arm. Gooden pitched 218 innings as a 19 year old and 276 as a 20 year old. 1985 wasn't THAT long ago. The difference now is the money. It's all about money. If Matt Harvey is going strong at 200 innings and it's September...He should be allowed to start 3 or 4 more games and log another 20 or 25 innings. He won't, but he probably could do it.
  • Reply to this Message
  • 2/2/13
  • danthemetfan
They pitched 250 innings by throwing a lot more than they do now. As pitchers throw fewer and fewer innigs thet are conditioned to throw fewer innings and thus get tired, pitch tired and get hurt. If they extended their sessions, they wouldnt pitch tired and would have fewer injuries. It started with backwards thinking and now is a self full filling prophesy.
  • Reply to this Message
  • 2/2/13
  • Remember86

I can't really agree. I think of young pitchers like new employees in your business. It's important for them to start slowly and build confidence. As they start to rack up the victories and other positive pitching performances along with arm strength and job knowledge, they can then be allowed to regularly go into the seventh, eighth and even ninth innings. The confidence and arm strength of the young pitcher are what needs to be bolstered and looked after with great care. I think Davey Johnson did a good job of this with the young Doc Gooden and Sid Fernandez.

I'm not saying it should be five or six innings and out without any regard to how the game is going, etc. Sure, if guys like Wheeler and Harvey are going strong without a storm cloud in sight, let them pitch. But let's not blow these guys' arms out in their first year or two in the majors either. Some sort of mix between going with the flow and having an eye on the bigger pitcher needs to be followed early in a pitcher's career.

  • Reply to this Message
  • 2/2/13
  • danthemetfan
Going deep into games is not a confidence issue (well it is) but more of a conditioning issue. If a pitcher is not used to doing it he will get hurt, which is why people think inning limits work. They need to pitch more, and start younger, and not wait until they are in the Majors.
  • Reply to this Message
Messages 548037.16 through 548037.17 were deleted
  • 2/3/13
  • govmule72

">>I tend to agree. Pitchers used to pitch. No reason they can't now.<<

Simply becase there is no "inside warning pitch" anymore, that is why.

2 of those and you get to take the longest hot shower on the team.

The rules have changed, pitchers used to be bullies, now they are either fine or hitting the pine early."

Is there a translator available?

  • Reply to this Message
Message 548037.19 was deleted
  • To:All
  • 2/3/13
  • ohhthepain

The game has changed and thats that. It is not going back to what it once was..Nolan or anybody else is not going to change that reality. The issue is multifactorial. The idea you just give these guys a kick in their a** and tell them go pitch more is silly. The idea of having them throw more pitches from a young age to build up the arm strength to do so is not the issue. These kids in many cases are throwing to much from an early age. That is in part why you have more high schoolers/college athletes requiring arm surgery. They are needing surgery before they ever reach the pro level..You have kids at the low levels of baseball where the very basics should be taught like location yet they are pitching highly competitively. Their bodies are not ready or mature enough for these kinds of demands.

You have issues with athletes not knowing how to prepare properly. How to use their entire body. If Nolan is doing anything he is doing his best to work with what he has. Focusing on pitching mechanics and preperation. You listen to guys like Kurt Schilling who's best years came after a major injury. That injury and the rehab that followed are what taught him how to truly prepare. If you are a young pitcher talk to him about the kind of preperation that is necessary to give your chance the best shot at avoiding injury..Nolan as well. These guys were work horses off the field so they could be it on the field. Factor in steroids and how you prepare with them and without them are not the same.

Its a new day and age. Athletes of yester year did not face the issues of todays athletes. Today we sit at computers all day long, we text all day long, we watch tv, playing video games. You have these kids growing up playing sports but outside of that they sit around. When you look at our daily lives you see postural changes. Skeletal and sof tissue adaptations for the worse, not the better. You take athletes with a forward slumped shoulder from sitting around all day and he develops scapular dysfunction just to name one and if you have a dysfunctional scapula you are an arm injury waiting to happen. And S.I.C.K scapula is a major issue for todays overhead athlete and something trainers have to deal with.

  • Reply to this Message
Powered by Mzinga