Mid 80's for them, WC contention. They'll be good (Heyward is a beast) but the Upton brothers don't overly impress, sorry.

Lost Bourn and Chipper combined 8.6 WAR last year, got Upton and Upton 4.9 combined WAR.

You're aware they won 94 games last season right?

94 games last season and they will be at LEAST just as good if not better this year...hopefully both Wheeler and Harvey become aces within the next 2 years along with Niese being at LEAST a good #2. Then, we have to hope D'Arnaud becomes an all star, Ike consistently hits 30+ hrs with a .270+ average, Tejada developes at least more doubles power while maintaining a .300ish average, DUDA turns into a 30 hr guy, etc. etc....I don't see us competing otherwise.

The odds of all those things happening are not good.

EXACTLY my point. Teams who want to win do BOTH...make impact trades and sign impact players. The Braves did both this winter.

J upton can be a 5 war player by himself though

(he's done it before)

but the Upton brothers don't overly impress, sorry.

i have to agree with you on this one . :-)