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    • OUR OF RIGHT NOW IS A QUESTION MARK BUT WHO KNOWS WHAT THEY
  • To:All
  • 1/21/13
  • saztastic2012

Could be, We really can not say what it will be right now.

And even if it is Duda, Capt K and Baxter we dont know enough to day what these guys will do.

In 179 ABS baxter had 14 2B, 2 3b, 3 HRS 5 SB, 26 runs, 17 RBI and saved Santana's No No, Over 600 ABS that projects to 47 2B, 7 3B, 11 HRS, 18 SB, 88 runs and 57,

Do you know for sure he wont do that?

What is Capt K? Is he the guy of the first244 ABS? Who gave us 39 runs, 25 RBI, 11 doubles, 1 triple, 7 HRS and 4 SB or the guy of the last 38 ABS who gave us 1 Run, 1 2b and 3 RBI

Eitehr way over 282 ABS he gave us 49 runs, 12 doubles, 1 triple, 7 HRS 28 RBI, 4 SB, Which over 564 ABS projects to 98 Runs, 24 doubles, 2 triples 14 Hrs, 56 rbi AND 8 sb.

Do you know he wont do that?

Same with Duda who really knows what he will be?

Is he the guys who over the first three months hit .256 with 32 runs, 43 RBI, 9 Doubles & 11 HRS over 264 ABS

or the guys who hit .234 with just 6 runs, 5 doubles, 3 HRS and 13 RBI over 94 ABS?

Even as a whole he gave us 43 runs, 15 HRS, 15 Doubles, 57 RBI over 401 ABS, Even if we take his season as a whole it still projects to 65 runs, 23 doubles and 23 HRS 85 RBI over 602 ABS.

If we got that kind of production last year we would have had a completely different season.

On paper our current OF is one big question mark, But that does not mean they cant be good, If they do just what they did in partial seasons over a full season we would be looking at

88/57
98/56
65/85

for a toal of 251 runs and 198 RBI

Last year our OF produced

68/80
78/59
75/67

221/206

The league average was
81/83
89/64
92/78

262/225

And that is not factorings subs, The league average and our 2011 stats were as a whole including everyone who played in the OF.

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  • 1/21/13
  • danthemetfan
so if i read your stats correctly at the end of your post, IF they play better than last year for a full season, they will still be worse than the average OF by 30 runs created.
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  • 1/21/13
  • Gepett0

our of is garbage plain and simple

im a pretty optimistic fan and even i can't pretend they are any better than trash

duda is the worst defensive of ive ever seen AND he has yet to show that he could even hit enough to hold down a corner spot if he was a GOOD defensive of

cowgill, baxter, etc are all 5th of'ers

kirk could be a starter at center if he could hit lefties but if he goes to a corner hes a bench guy

den dekker hasnt shown the ability to hit AAA pitching, let alone major leaguers

if ONE of those 5 guys turned out to be a major league caliber starting of'er, i would consider us to be lucky

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  • 1/21/13
  • RobfromLI

We know what these guys are, they know what they are and the Mets know what they are. That's why Sandy jokes the way he does. Granted Omar would be talking up our five tool players right now but not Sandy.

It's sad but it doesn't seem anything will be done.

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  • 1/22/13
  • saztastic2012

No you read wrong,

The average numbers are based on every player on the team who played that position, In many cases well more then 600 ABS, In the case of our players it is under 600 ABS, That said I also said if they played NO better then last year, I did not factor anything other then their actual production projected.

That said what you seem to ignore is how much better those numbers are then what we had last year.

IF we went with those three guys, If they dont im prove at all those three guys would greatly out produce what we had last year because Bay and Torres were so bad.

And AVG is just that the league average, There were plenty of teams that produced less then what those three guys project.

Point it you have no clue what those three guys can do because they dont have a track record, If Capt K plays as he did the first 2.5 months for the entire season, If Bay plays like he did from the ASB 2011 to the ASB 2012, IF IF we dont know what they are, Peaople who claim they are garbage are just stupid because we have not seen anywhere near enough to know what they are.

We are talking about guys who have had very few big league ABS,

One guy has 221 big league ABS (1/3rd of a seasons worth)
Another has 786 Big league ABS (a little over a full seasons worth)
The other has 282 Big league ABS (less then half a season)

The three combined have had 1289 ABS, That is it, Anyone who thinks they know what 3 players are off of a combined 1289 ABS is as clueless as the day is long.

  • Reply to this Message
  • 1/22/13
  • saztastic2012

Duda has 700 Plus big league ABS, Capt K has under 300 big league ABS and Baxter has a little over 200.

If you think you know what a player is off 200, 300 AND even 700 ABS you are clueless.

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  • 1/22/13
  • saztastic2012

No Sandy knows there is not a lot of power there (expect for Duda) that does not mean if we had to go with them they could not produce, But the mets wanted to add power which they really have not done yet.

Duda has had 700 big league ABS, Baxter just over 200 and Capt K under 300, Sorry you can not make a jusgement based on so few ABs, They could turn out to be garbage but you just can not say based on so few ABs.

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  • 1/22/13
  • elsid1986

*Sorry you can not make a jusgement based on so few ABs, They could turn out to be garbage but you just can not say based on so few ABs*

And that is why your original post where you projected what they could give over a full seaon is absurd.

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  • 1/22/13
  • saztastic2012

So it is OK for you to call them garbage based on so few ABS but I cant project out their stats? Explain why what is good for the goose is not for the gander????"

I projected based on wha they did, Did not add for improvement, Did not just take their good months, I took their total ABS and projected out,

Where as you guys take what they did and call them garbage, But fact is even if they did not improve what they did if it was done for a full season would be average which was much better then what we got as a whole because of Bay and Torres getting so many wasted ABs.

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  • 1/22/13
  • bbjmparis

You simply can't ignore that Kirk and Baxter were day and night the first and second half of the season. Lots of rookies start off hot. Then, big league pitchers figure them out, find a weakness, and exploit it. That's exactly what happened to both of them. Neither showed any signs of being able to adjust back to what the pitchers were doing to them. Especially Kirk who became an automatic K the second half of the year.

It his highly likely that the "real" Kirk and Baxter are what we saw the second half of 2012.

As for Duda, I think we all know what he is...nothing much. He didn't hit in Buffalo after being sent down for not hitting.

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  • 1/22/13
  • elsid1986

*I projected based on wha they did, Did not add for improvement, Did not just take their good months*

Well there is one problem with that. Kirk and Duda both had decent starts, and as is always the case Major League Pitchers learned their weaknesses and exploited them. And then what happended? Good players adjust accordingly. But they both went into the tank so bad they had to be sent down.

This isn't stratamatic baseball. You cannot look at stats in a vacuum.

* But fact is even if they did not improve what they did if it was done for a full season would be average*

Really? And what if what they became after pitchers adjusted to them, was all they were, and it played out that way for the whole season. Your averages go out the window!

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  • 1/22/13
  • elsid1986

*Same with Duda who really knows what he will be?

Is he the guys who over the first three months hit .256 with 32 runs, 43 RBI, 9 Doubles & 11 HRS over 264 ABS*

Question for you. Say Duda gives the Mets 22 Hrs 75 RBI's and .250. Do you think that justifies his absolutely pathetic defense playing on a regular basis?

Because I think he needs provide alot more offense that that.

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  • 1/22/13
  • MetObserver
Saz it is true that Baxter only had 179 At bats but you must remember that 160 were against RHPers. and only 19 against LHPing. So he was and will be a pinch hitter/platoon player at best. because he couldn't hold up that line day in and day out as a starter. IMO.
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  • 1/22/13
  • AdrianMonk

I really don't mind us going with these guys for the time being. They're probably not going to set the world on fire, but we'll get by without too much embarrasement. The key is not to do anything foolish in the interest of a few extra meaningless wins this season.
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  • 1/22/13
  • saztastic2012

Actually Baxter got hurt if you remeber saving Santana's no No, So he did not fall off, Capt K had three decent months but as the team went intoa tail spin so did he, Alot of young players slump.

That said the numbers I gave which were improvments over what we got last year from the likes of Bay and Torres were stright projections I did not add anything for expected improvement.

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  • 1/22/13
  • saztastic2012

"It his highly likely that the "real" Kirk and Baxter are what we saw the second half of 2012"

This shows how little you know in so many ways, As I said Baxter got hurt he did not slump in the second half as you so incorrectly claimed, Second Capt K had a good two and a half months could ahve been the league catching up to him in which case he will need to make ajustments or could be he just went south with the entire team

Murph had the same thing and people like you were all jummping around saying see see he stinks then he figured it out and was back to the hitter we know.

Your post is filled with baseless BS that lacks anything of merrit to support it with,

Do you think Baxter's second half was night and day with his first???

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  • 1/22/13
  • murphstates
Baxter played more games and had more ABs in the second half than the first half.
  • Reply to this Message
  • 1/22/13
  • saztastic2012

You people are always so negitive always assuming the worst case, If you looked at Duda stats he had one month then he bounced back and started to hit better.

And Capt K hit about the same for three months, He fell off in his finale 30 something ABS, But when you have 270 some ABS a bad 30 can skew your whole stat line,

FACT IS you can not with any validity say what these players will be, It is so funny you are willing to ASSUME they are garbage, Ignore what they have done and focuse on the games they did not play well and then state as a fact that the bad games were the real player the good games were just luck.

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  • 1/22/13
  • saztastic2012
Have you checked his fielding % and range factors from LF? There is a reason he is being moved to Left.
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  • 1/22/13
  • MetObserver
You are correct he did have more games in the second half but that was coming back from injury to his ribs. He was out during June and July and after he came back he wasn't as effective. But is the real Baxter the gutty player we saw in the beginning or was the post injury Baxter the real Baxter? We won't know until this ST since he now has had all Winter to heal.
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