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    • WHY DO PEOPLE SAY WE CANT CONTEND?
  • To:All
  • 1/21/13
  • saztastic2012

I know a lot needs to break right but well we are due,

We have a solid rotation,

Santana was an ACE for the first 16 games before getting stepped on,
Neise was ACE like for a full season instead of just great the first half as in the two prior seasons
Harvey has shown what he can do
Gee well we all saw what he was and as a fourth starter that is very good
Number five will be someone like a pavano untill Wheeler is ready

That is on paper very good and has the potential to be very very good

Pitching wins,

Our pen was an issue last year but pens are hot and cold, Hopefully the young guys we have and the new guys we will bring in can give us a solid pen.

We are above average at 1B, 2b, SS, 3rd and should be at C, We are below average in the OF but hopefully that changes before the start of ST, If not we need Duda, Capt K and whoever else to be atleast average.

So there is no reason to say we can not contend.

Is it a lock? No but we had a very good rotation which should be good again, Our pen was horrid and just with the subtractions should be better,

Our offense was very good at the start but faltered however if we get average production from C and two of the three OF spots we should score more then 700 Runs as we did in 2011..

Yes things need to break right but they can, Duda can hit .265 with 25 Jacks, JJ Could revert back to what he was in the years past (remeber he had 4 stright years with mid 3 ERAs in the AL)

There is alot that can also go right, Maybe Pedro reverts back to what he was before he left.

Alot can go right as well.

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  • 1/21/13
  • metsfansince89

74 wins in 2012:
we lost dickey
we added nobody

the end

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Message 547713.3 was deleted
  • 1/21/13
  • danthemetfan
You keep saying the Mets can have a good offense like in 2011. Remind me, how did they do in 2011? Why do people say the Mets can't compete? Because they have not in so long, and they are not getting better. Even ti say they have shed some bad players (which i think will improve the team), they are still not as good as the Phils, Braves, and Nats. Also, the Giants are still good, and the Dodgers will be good too. There are too nany teams much better to serously contend even for WC #2.
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  • 1/21/13
  • TheGMan47
We may have lost dickey but we also got rid of Bay, Torres, Thole, and many of our aging bullpen arms. And we will have production from Harvey, Niese, D'Arnaud, Wheeler, and Ike Davis.
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Messages 547713.6 through 547713.8 were deleted
  • 1/21/13
  • fargol

You're free to not read his threads.

The fact that you do tells me you enjoy attacking him and would be very sad if he DID shut the eff up.

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  • 1/21/13
  • Gepett0
our outfield is the worst outfield in baseball and it isnt really even close....im always for optimism ...but you dont contend when you dont have a single major league caliber OF on your entire 40 man roster
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Message 547713.11 was deleted
  • 1/21/13
  • saztastic2012
Fair enough.
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  • 1/21/13
  • saztastic2012
How did they do in 2011? They were 6th in runs scored in 2011.
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  • 1/21/13
  • saztastic2012
AHHH look at the poor pathetic online abusive poster, Got her panties all in a bunch cause someone has a positive view, Gotta wonder how pathetic your life really is.
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  • 1/21/13
  • danthemetfan
and the team record? Did they contend? (that is what I was looking for - and I know the answer)
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  • 1/21/13
  • saztastic2012
That thing is clearly a pathetic troll, he actually got mad that I look at this team with positive glasses, Wonder if that ignite knows this is a FAN forum.
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  • 1/21/13
  • gilforhof
I think contending is out of the question for this year. Being competitive may be a bit more realistic, but even that is stretching it. I want the Mets to suceed, but I'm looking to 2014. Someone said we shed out aging BP arms, but if you look, the FO is talking about signing some of our retreads I.e. Batista etc. I do believe the Mets will have their moments during 2013, but they won't be enough to cause other teams much concern. Looking forward to this year none the less.
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Message 547713.18 was deleted
  • 1/21/13
  • Remember86

We have a solid rotation.

*Maybe.

Santana was an ACE for the first 16 games before getting stepped on.

*After his no hitter, he wasn't the same pitcher he had been previously. In the space of two starts around June 1st, he threw alot more pitches than the Mets would've liked him to throw. When a pitcher has an injury to one part of his anatomy, it CAN lead to arm issues. His getting stepped on MAY have harmed his arm, and along with the long prior offseaon work, MAY have created more physical issues. We will have to see what we have with Santana this season. And we will have to see if he has physical ability to make it fairly well through a whole season. It would be a jump to say he'll still be our ace or even number two guy this season.

Neise was ACE like for a full season instead of just great the first half as in the two prior seasons

* Ace like? No. A good number three starter? Yes. I look for him to continue along on the very positive path he took last season. I'm a big Niese fan.

Harvey has shown what he can do.

*The next step for Harvey is to make adjustments to however the league's hitters adjust to him. Even Doc Gooden needed to adjust his pitching patterns after the league started laying off his high and hard fastball. All MLers need to make adjustments their sophomore year. Harvey showed alot of promise. I look forward to watching him pitch in 2013.

Gee well we all saw what he was and as a fourth starter that is very good.

*Gee also needs to prove he's healthy. I think he's a very good number FIVE starter. Number four is probably pushing it.

Number five will be someone like a pavano untill Wheeler is ready.

I hope it is NOT Pavano. I don't believe I'm typing this, but I'd prefer to see Chris Young return in that role. I'm very much looking forward to watching Wheeler after all the talk about him.

That is on paper very good and has the potential to be very very good.

*Well, paper is thin. And so is the margin for error. An injury to Santana, missteps by Niese or Harvey. And we're looking at a long season.

Pitching wins.

*Yes, it does. But unless it's ELITE like the kind of pitching the Braves got out of their staff in the second half (ERA of about 2.98), you need more offense than the Mets are sporting at the moment. And since the Mets pitching staff was ranked tenth (I believe it was tenth), we won't be watching an elite pitching staff this coming season, that's for certain.

Our pen was an issue last year but pens are hot and cold, Hopefully the young guys we have and the new guys we will bring in can give us a solid pen.

*Our pen was more than "an issue," it was among the worst in all of baseball. And thus far, precious little has done to improve it. With the glaring need for AN outfield still not moved on, the talk about the horrible bullpen has been quiet in comparison. But unless the bullpen kids step up (which could happen) and the remaining veterans turn it completely around, we're likely to see alot of games fall through the cracks, as they've done the past few seasons.

We are above average at 1B, 2b, SS, 3rd and should be at C, We are below average in the OF but hopefully that changes before the start of ST, If not we need Duda, Capt K and whoever else to be atleast average.

*I'm a big Ike Davis fan. As far as homers and RBIs was concerned, he had a surprisingly good total, considering his horrific first half. IF he can show consistency next season with less of a pentient for striking out, I think we can look at Ike as someone who'll be a Met for some time to come. I don't think we're above average at first base...yet.

Murphy is one of our main sources of offense. I still don't like his defense. When I combine his offense, his defense and his baseball acumen, I think calling him above average is pushing it.

Ruben Tejada has yet to prove he's an every day player. Until he does, I think it's premature to say we're above average at shortstop. I like his defense and offense. He surprised me last season, no doubt. But his durability question needs to be answered.

Nothing to say about Wright. We know what we have with him.

D'Arnaud will be a rookie this season. It's way premature to say we're above average there. We simply don't know.

The outfield is lousy right now. Duda's defense is sub par and his offense is questionable. He became lost at sea, was sent to the minors for a few weeks, didn't do well there, came back only because the Mets needed SOMEONE in the outfield. What's sad is, he may be the best of what's out there. Kirk N. strikes out way too much. He had a great start, but so have many other players, some of whom were out of baseball within a couple of years. He needs to adjust to what the league is throwing at him. He won't be as good as he was whe he first came up, but if he can be halfway between that and where he plummeted to, he'll be of some value to the Mets next year. But that still leaves A quality guy who would at least give SOME credence to the outfield (though the Mets need TWO such players out there). I don't expect the Mets to break the bank either prospectswise or moneywise trying to sign such a player, but the inaction this offseason has been VERY disappointing.

So there is no reason to say we can not contend.

*Yes, there are plenty of reasons we can not contend. The Nationals have improved. We weren't in the same county as them last season. The Phillies have improved. They ended up ahead of us after struggling mightily as their big guns were all on the DL. The Braves should be better. Their pitchers really stepped it up during the second half. The Reds should be just as good. The Dodgers may be a little better. The Brewers took off during the second half and almost made the postseason. The SF Giants are the World Champs for the second time in three years.

We just don't have the horses. I think it's too much to expect a team to contend which is filled with youngsters without a real track record, a few key rookies, 2/5 of a rotation which is returning from a season ending trip to the DL, other guys who's durability and ABILITY is questionable. The aggregate talent level is too small in comparison.


Edited 1/21/13   by  Remember86
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  • 1/21/13
  • DFAB

IF things broke right, and I mean EVERYTHING...then yea, we could have a chance to make a run. That is A LOT that needs to break right though. Ike needs to have another 30+ hr season with a much better average. Duda needs to have a breakout season. Niese to pitch as well or better than last year. Harvey needs to have a breakout year. Santana needs to stay healthy and pitch like he did pre no hitter. The bullpen must be near flawless. All this plus other things.

If the wilpons allowed SA to spend at least SOME money, we could have added a Ludwick type or make a Willingham type trade. We can't just rely on a bunch of minor league signings and prospects and expect to be any good. Money HAS to be spent at some point. It's possible that 1 or more of our minor league signings could actually contribute at the ML level but winning teams don't rely solely on cheap minor league signings. They add MAJOR league players to fill a majority of their holes on top of making these minor league deals. There is still time before ST but I am VERY skeptical of the wilpons signing ANYONE of significance or spending more than the minimum on anyone. Not signing a single player to a major league contract is completely unacceptable given the amount of holes we have. Even if some of the players don't "put us over the top" or "might not be enough to make us competitive" we should STILL make some signings. It's not like the money we don't spend this year will be put into a safe somewhere to be saved for future signings. Also, some of the cheap ML signings COULD actually have good 1st halves and bring back some decent prospects at the deadline. No matter how you look at it, it makes ZERO sense not to sign any ML players. The wilpons better get their act together. I'm still waiting for them to put the TEAM before their personal finances...

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