While Justin Upton is an upgrade for any Mets OF (basically who isnt?), he is not that great to be worth trading what it will take to get him. Once he hit .300, 4 years ago. Twice he has hit more than 20 HR, and he plays in Arizona. He strikes out more than 100 times a year, and Ks twice as often than he walks. Isn't that already a problem on this team? He has good speed, but has only posted a successful stealing % of 70 or better once.

So basically he is an above average player, with ok power, ok speed, attitude problems, would be expensive, and would probably see a #s drop out of Arizona, so lets trade the farm for him? Right? I am happy no substantial offer has been made, and I hope it stays that way. There has to be better options, even if it means waiting a year to have it.

People act like he is Beltran in his prime.

His overvalue by Mets fans, inluding myself, is most likely due to what I consider a desperate fear of our OF will look like.

I have no problem admitting that there's a part of me that's desperate just to have an actual MLB player in the OF. We have three positions out there and not one single actual MLB level player to fill any of them.

Baxter, Kirck, Duda - all lefties - are not MLB quality starters. They're patchwork guys. Do they have a place in MLB? Of course they do. Will the Mets use them appropriately? No. Why? Because we have no one to actually play the position, so patchwork guys become starters.

Upton drastically improves this team by adding an actual MLB player to the roster.

I'm not saying I would give up the farm for him and I certainly wouldn't give up Ike for him but I want him ...

He's 25 years old and quite dynamic. I'm not sure people are fascinated. I just think they know he is much better than we have, and may get better. Most people have been pretty temperate in their trade proposals.

He's overrated by posters on this board, but he is still just 25 years old and is a career .280 hitter and has hit more than 30 home-runs in a season before.

I'd GLADLY take a 5-tool, 25 year old player with massive potential, but I don't want to destroy the farm just for him.

Agreed. If nobody else is willing to overpay, the Diamondbacks will have painted themselves into a corner. If that happens, and he can be acquired relatively cheaply, then pull the trigger. If not, let someone else overpay.

Ive seen proposals of 4 players for him, including Wheeler. That is nuts. If that isnt a fascination with him, it is just imbecilic to understand. He is not worth it.

5 tools

Power (ok, he hit 31 HR once... But it was in Arizona where the ball flied. In 5 seasons, he has one 31hr season, 1 26, and three 17 or under. That is not a lot of power)

Average (he is a .280 hitter... that is not hitting for average. Once he hit .300)

Speed (he has topped out at 21 SB. For a speed guy, that isnt that fast. Also, does not have an excellent steal rate. It is good, but statistically nothing to get giddy about)

Arm and Defense... I dont know about his D or his arm, but even if he was A+ in both, I'd still wouldnt say he is a 5 tool player.

The guy will cost a ton to get in a trade, and will cost a lot to keep. Yes he is young, but the fact that Arizona wants him gone should speak loudly.

"I'd GLADLY take a 5-tool, 25 year old player with massive potential, but I don't want to destroy the farm just for him."

Exactly, and I think that's what the debates have been about.

I can't recall anyone who said they didn't want him even if he came cheap.

How cheap? I dont think he will come cheap enough.

I agree, they are just having 5 tool orgasms.
He is just over hyped and in no way is a Mays, Trout, Mantle type player.

There is no question our fans are overrating bigtime>>>>

look at how met fans overrate met players and prospects. kind of surprised some would overrate non met players.

"just ask the Giants who have won 2 title in 3 years because of pitching"

:-)

He's a rock star, kinda in the Ken Griffey Jr. mold, only without the same baseball abilities.

I think Griffey had more talent than Barry Bonds but if Bonds had never done the roids thing and not gained all the weight, he had such talent he might have played until he was fifty. He'd have the SB record, runs scored RBI's. He would have been a shoe in for the first ballet Hall even though all the hater writers still would have been accusing him of PED use.
He would have still broken Aaron's record but not Maguire's.

i agree that hes not worth gutting the farm but i think we have different ideas as to what that means

i would not trade any of wheeler, harvey, or tda for him....i would be very very very wary of including niese...i dont WANT to include syndergaard and probably wouldnt

BUT if i could get him for a trade built around flores and one of montero/fulmer/tapia w/ a mejia/flores added to the equation, i think id do it simply bc there is no one better available next year that wont kill our operating budget going forth and any body better that would come via a trade will cost one of the players that I really don't want to part w/

i know that this wasn't exactly aimed at my package but more the "trade niese, ike, wheeler, syndergaard, blah blah blah" packages out there but I did want to point that out

>>>"While Justin Upton is an upgrade for any Mets OF (basically who isnt?), he is not that great to be worth trading what it will take to get him. Once he hit .300, 4 years ago. Twice he has hit more than 20 HR, and he plays in Arizona. He strikes out more than 100 times a year, and Ks twice as often than he walks. Isn't that already a problem on this team? He has good speed, but has only posted a successful stealing % of 70 or better once.
So basically he is an above average player, with ok power, ok speed, attitude problems, would be expensive, and would probably see a #s drop out of Arizona, so lets trade the farm for him? Right? I am happy no substantial offer has been made, and I hope it stays that way. There has to be better options, even if it means waiting a year to have it."<<<

I can't argue with anything you said. In fact, I've said essentially the same thing myself many times. Upton is a talented player, and still young in years, but not young in experience. He's been around 5-6 years, and in my view, hasn't really done anything yet that special. A good player, but not one worth hurting your farm to get. If he could be had at a discount, that didn't include any of our best prospects, then fine, but I seriously doubt Zona excepts such a discounted package at this point, since they are under no real pressure to trade now. As you say, I sooner wait another year for something, then to drain what progress we've made on our system, just to get a player who's output isn't that special.

I agree Bonds would have had a better overall career, and maybe a World Series ring or two.

... Aaron's record, hard to say.

"I agree Bonds would have had a better overall career, and maybe a World Series ring or two.

... Aaron's record, hard to say."

I say no. 2000-2004 he was absurd. There's no way he just got that good from 35-39 years old. In 2004, at 39, his OBP was .609. He was wailin'.