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    • Rank em: Sandy's biggest failures
  • To:All
  • 1/13/13
  • KB24NYM

-Letting Reyes walk for nothing
-Not signing Cespedes
-Frank Francisco
-Nimmo over Barnes
-Josh Thole: Starting catcher?
-Pagan for Ramirez and Torres
-5.5 million for Pelfrey

Go!

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  • 1/13/13
  • nym698641
Believing Fred and Jeff's lies that they weren't as bad off as they actually are financially, before taking the job. I am sure that he is kicking himself harder over that then anything else.
  • Reply to this Message
  • 1/13/13
  • 86kid

>>>" Letting Reyes walk for nothing"<<<

I don't see it as being that simple.

>>> "Not signing Cespedes"<<<

And how many other GMs didn't sign him ?

>>>"Frank Francisco"<<<

Were we expecting him to be much better than what he was ? He was a mediocre closer, and we couldn't afford much more than that. But then, people who wanted to sign Bell awhile back... how did that turn out ?

>>>"Nimmo over Barnes"<<<

Kinda hard rate this a failure when Nimmo is still a pup.

>>>"Josh Thole: Starting catcher?"<<<

Alderson was supposed to show up here with a boat load of players and money already in his pocket, to replace the entire roster that was already here ?

>>>"Pagan for Ramirez and Torres"<<<

Ramirez had been one a the better relief pitchers in the league for awhile. The fact that he failed to perform according to his resume doesn't make it a bad decision, just a bad result. Torres was an extra piece.

>>>"-5.5 million for Pelfrey"<<<

Alderson was supposed to show up here with a boat load or players and money already in pocket, to replace the entire roster that was already here ?


Edited 1/13/13   by  86kid
Edited 1/13/13   by  86kid
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  • 1/13/13
  • PrayedforBay
Nothing more needs to be said, end the thread here.
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  • 1/13/13
  • The5Wright5Way
-Letting Reyes walk for nothing: Pathetic: Reyes should be our SS right now
-Frank Francisco: he turned into a total bust, i have no idea how he got 6m
-Josh Thole: Starting Catcher: He is essentially Luis Castillo minus the speed
-Pagan for Ramirez and Torres: This trade wasn't that bad when it happened, no one expected both to flop
-5.5 million for Pelfrey: Pelfrey was a decent pitcher, not great but not bad, 5.5m was to much but not by much
-Nimmo over Barnes: This is yet to be determined. Nimmo's ceiling is high lets wait and see (he's 19)
-Not signing Cespedes: How can you blame him? This really wasn't in his control.
  • Reply to this Message
  • 1/13/13
  • JoseJose
The Reyes thing was awful. The current (lack of an) outfield should make the list too. A list of Sandy's successes would be empty.
  • Reply to this Message
  • 1/13/13
  • jgrangers2

<-Letting Reyes walk for nothing>

Could certainly make a case why this was a mistake.

<Not signing Cespedes>

You think any other GM would have in this position? You have a team with a million holes and no money and you think anybody is spending basically their entire budget on this guy with an uncertain financial future?

<Frank Francisco>

Mistake to sign him. Didn't like the signing at the time either.

<Nimmo over Barnes>

Can we let these guys get out of A ball before we make this decision.

<Josh Thole: Starting catcher?>

Other options? With a rebuilding team, made complete sense to see what we had in a 25 year old rather than sign some mediocre placeholder.

<Pagan for Ramirez and Torres>

Made complete sense at the time. Pagan likely had no future with this team even if he stayed and Ramirez was a cheap, reliable reliever.

<5.5 million for Pelfrey>

Again, another move that made sense for a rebuilding team. The guy was an innings eater on a team with one other guy who you could count on for 35 starts.

You guys keep acting like we should judge him on these moves. You can't because he has yet to be put in a position where the team was expected to win. I don't judge GMs on their small-time moves when the team is in rebuilding mode. I never expected this team to be competitive in the short-term and can't imagine that any GM would have done anything significantly different.

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  • 1/13/13
  • JoseJose
At what point can Spindy be judged then? I believe the total sum of everything he does and doesn't do can be used to judge him.
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  • 1/13/13
  • 86kid

Some Successes:

- Extends Dickey, and that ultimately leads to him being here to win a CY Young
- Trades Dickey several years later for the best catching prospect in baseball+a top teir pitching prospect+an additional prospect.
- Trades Beltran, with no draft compensation attached, for Wheeler - one of the top pitching prospects in baseball.
- Signing Neise long term to a club friendly contract
- Extends David Wright to a "reasonable" deal that with bell curved pay scale
- Gets good production from a low cost signing in Chris Young
- Gets good production from a low cost signing in Capuano
- Gets good production from a low cost pick up in Hariston

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  • 1/13/13
  • jgrangers2
He can be judged when we actually see HIS team on the field. What we see on the field is still mostly Omar's team because Sandy hasn't had the resources to fix it yet. If you want to judge a guy who inherits a 79-win team in financial crisis, you're crazy. This team was always going to get worse before it got better. The short-term outlook was terrible when he arrived.
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  • 1/13/13
  • JoseJose
Pretty bleak success list IMO. And the prospects could pan out or could not.
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  • 1/13/13
  • 86kid

>>>"Pretty bleak success list IMO. "<<<

Not in mine.

>>>"And the prospects could pan out or could not."<<<

Whether they do or not doesn't negate the fact that they were good deals on their face.


Edited 1/13/13   by  86kid
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  • 1/13/13
  • jgrangers2
Part of the problem is that some of these people will never accept the reality of the situation. If their expectations were that this team would be competitive quickly then they clearly lack a rational outlook.
  • Reply to this Message
  • 1/13/13
  • 86kid

>>>"Part of the problem is that some of these people will never accept the reality of the situation. If their expectations were that this team would be competitive quickly then they clearly lack a rational outlook."<<<

Yeah. I mean said from day one that this was a process that would take years, and it would require patience and sacrifices in the short term. Sandy all but said that too, but somehow some people still seem to think we'd play checkbook baseball over these past years. It hasn't happened, and likely won't happen for awhile. I have no problem with being critical of Sandy for some things, but on other things it is unreasonable to make judgements on. Like veiwing Nimmo's pick a failure, when the kids only been here for a millisecond, it just really absurd.

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  • 1/14/13
  • 86kid
Thanks
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  • 1/14/13
  • 86kid

>>>"-Letting Reyes walk for nothing: Pathetic: Reyes should be our SS right now"<<<

Reyes made his choice. He may have had it in mind from the start to be Marlin anyway. If he really wanted to be here that badly, maybe he could have been.

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  • 1/14/13
  • marvelousmarvin
Winning
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  • 1/14/13
  • robrock30

FO failures in order:

1) Letting Reyes go for zilch. Should of obtained a top ML ready prospect + for him when he was healthy. Red Sox at the time needed a SS. Could have gotten Josh Reddick the other guy who played SS for Houston and top prospect

2) The Pagan trade for a couple of stiffs knowing that the org was thin in OF & speed guys at the time.
SF hosed us on that deal as payback for Beltran

3) Wasting resources last offseason on crappy bullpen and Pelfrey knowing the org was loaded with pitching on the horizon instead of performing any due diligence on Cespedes where the org was very thin.

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  • 1/14/13
  • robrock30
The other guy I was referring to from Red Sox who played SS for Houston was Jed Lowrie in the previous post.
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  • 1/14/13
  • stearnsy12

1)we wouldn't have gotten nearly that much for a 3 month rental of a shortstop with a bad hamstring

2) if Ramirez had simply pitched to his career numbers this wouldn't be an issue OR if Pagan was still here we'd be complaining that Sandy didn't have enough money to keep him after he signed somewhere else for 4/40....either way Pagan wasn't going to make us winners in '12 and he wasn't going to be here next season

3)i didn't like the Pelfrey signing but he pitched extremely well before he got hurt,no way to predict that....Rauch was middling and Frankie obviously a complete failure something he had no record of in the past

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