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    • Mr. Do Nothing
  • To:All
  • 12/7/12
  • pclfan2
Last year when the Mets had a slew of injuries after a good first half Sandy Alderson did nothing. No deals or acquisitions of any kind, the Mets just brought up players from Buffalo who after some early success failed and we saw what happened in the second half. We were 20 games under .500. So now that the Wilpons have settled the Madoff situation and have promised to again be competitive what have they done so far. Other than signing Wright, nothing. There are players available other than the R.A. Dickey deal than could help fill the roster and not be super expensive. Guys like Reed Johnson, a very good outfielder who just re-signed with the Braves. Relief pitchers who they desperately need. And if they let go of Dickey, a starting pitcher. One guy I would love to sign and wouldn't be overly expensive is Ichiro. Boy could the Mets use a great consistent over .300 hit machine like him who would be perfect for CitiField. To counter balance all of the other guys who hit below the Mendoza line. And he's also a great outfielder. But he probably wouldn't sign with us since he wants to win and wouldn't sign with a team and a GM who does nothing.
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  • 12/7/12
  • DFAB
the problem is and always has been the wilpons...not SA
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  • To:All
  • 12/7/12
  • pclfan2
I think you're right. But in all fairness to Wilpon, before their problems with Madoff they did spend money. For example Bay, Ollie Perez, Santana, etc. All bad contracts. And now Wright, who although good is not a franchise player. They could actually sign Dickey for about $12 a year for two years and have him tied up for 3 years only paying him $5 million next season. A lot better deal than giving Johann Santana over $20 a year for five or six years. But last year when the bullpen imploded there was still a chance to save the season. And instead of making a few deals and getting pitchers he did nothing. And you see what happened.

Edited 12/7/12   by  pclfan2
Edited 12/7/12   by  pclfan2
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  • 12/7/12
  • fargol

Keep in mind the Phils, Braves, Nats are already good teams. The Mets are not.

While picking up a mediocre player is something good teams do all the time to help out with depth, the Mets have no depth. Picking up mediocre older players is utterly pointless. And if they did so, this forum would be alive with posts bashing SA for making moves to appease the fans.

If there was a blockbuster type player out there whom we could have acquired for something other than an already important player (few as those are) or a key prospect (ditto), please let me know.

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  • To:All
  • 12/7/12
  • pclfan2
I disagree. You don't need blockbusters to fill out your lineup. Just good players at a decent price. Successful teams have good balance and not always superstars. But last season our call ups were not satisfactory. Players like Hairston, Reed Johnson, Scutaro will not break the bank but bring good production. You have a 25 man roster and the Mets need outfielders and have none. Now they're talking about maybe bringing back Angel Torres who was very mediocre last year. He is not a starting outfielder. He is a bench player.
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  • 12/7/12
  • JoseJose
I completely agree with you. The inaction when it comes to improving the team is inexcusable, and appears to validate concerns that payroll will not increase.
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  • 12/7/12
  • JoseJose
So because the Mets are bad they should not make moves to improve the team other than blockbuster moves that we know they won't make? Hmm, seems like we don't need those 3 super-shrewd, well paid wizard GMs, my dog could make that call. OFs and BP pitchers are going, and we need em bit ain't gettin' em.
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  • 12/7/12
  • fargol

"So because the Mets are bad they should not make moves to improve the team other than blockbuster moves that we know they won't make?"
So we'll win 76 games next year instead of 74? Sounds good.

"OFs and BP pitchers are going, and we need em bit ain't gettin' em. "
Which OF'ers and pitchers we missed out on would have honestly floated your boat?

And I didn't say he shouldn't make moves (also please keep in mind ST hasn't started yet). I said if he got some of these players currently moving around, my optimism (such as it is) wouldn't improve noticeably.

I want to see Dickey (if possible) bring back two REAL prospects, or at least one real, major-league ready, impact player who's still young.

Would Ludwick, for example, really improve us with a look to the future?

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  • 12/7/12
  • oceans48
When was the last time the Wilpons delivered something we needed, when we needed it? All we get is lies, spin doctoring and more drivvel out of their greedy mouths. The have the $$$ to spend, just refuse to. The could've turned their big chips into a core to develope alongside our strong, young pitching. In essence, you're getting the same bunch of inept failures you watched last year, with no hope of a decent lineup for the future.
Where exactly have they moved this team one stinking inch better???
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  • 12/7/12
  • murphstates

We now have Alderson quoted saying bringing Dickey back without an extension is a real possibility.

“I don’t think it’s necessarily the optimum result, but it’s a possible result, and if that is the one that ultimately transpires, we’ll be happy with that.”

In order to receive draft pick compensation if Dickey was to play out his contract the Mets would have to make a qualifying offer. Hypothetically, what if Dickey has a down year compared to 2012, say 13-13 with a 3.75 ERA.

This year's qualifying offer was $13.3 million. Let's say next season it's $14 million.

Are the Mets going to make a qualifying offer that Dickey could accept? This is what I don't understand about why they are low balling him with an extension. If he's not traded the only way to get compensation is to be willing to commit the money and if they're willing to take that risk, why not just sign him?

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  • To:All
  • 12/7/12
  • pclfan2
You can win a lot of games without superstars. Look at the Marlins last year after all those expensive signings. First you have to start with the bullpen. It's not overly expensive to sign decent relievers. Actually re-signing Brydak was a good and a cheap move. If he is ready this year he is a very good lefty specialist. That was really the beginning of the end last year when the bullpen fell apart. And our GM just let it slide in a crisis situation when we were actually playing good ball. I think he could have saved the season with a few deals but everything fall apart. Look at Marcus Scutaro. Not a superstar but a very good player and not expensive who led the Giants to the World Series. Again, I think we need more consistent hitting and IMO Ichiro is the guy to sign and he could be available.
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  • To:All
  • 12/7/12
  • pclfan2
There is really little risk to bring back Dickey on a two year contract. Even though he is 38. So why are they so much against re-signing him esp. with the guy wanting to come back and not holding them up. If he wants 2 years at $25 million and they have him at $5 million for 2013 that means they have him for the next three years for $30 million. That's a good price for a guy who is a gamer, looks like he has a few more years left esp. since he's a knuckleballer. How are you going to replace those 20 Ws. No way. And he just might do it again. And what are you getting in return. Prospects. We have our own. But the cheapest way out is to keep him in 2013 for the $5 million and then probably trade him in July.
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  • 12/7/12
  • wrghtknght
Everyone seems to want to trade Dickey, but then the question of where you get the stability needed to even build up to a contending team arises. So far, and I don't know if some of it comes from any sort of official source, but I've heard from reading here that Dickey, Niese and potentially Wheeler are available to other teams via trade. If the Mets CAN get a very good deal for one of them, they should do it, but then make every effort to retain the other two. Losing any two of these three is unacceptable, no matter what comes back in deals. One deal I have heard of on this board is trading Niese for Myers. If the Mets can do this (as a far cry as it is), they should. And then they should immediately raise their standing offer to Dickey, meet somewhere in the middle TO START. The last thing the Mets need to be right now is a revolving door of potentially talented players.

Edited 12/7/12   by  wrghtknght
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  • 12/7/12
  • nvmets10

"So we'll win 76 games next year instead of 74? Sounds good."

I'm sorry but this is kind of a frightening way to operate. No, perhaps the move of, say, a Ludwick alone doesn't put us over the top and into a World Series. But that shouldn't also mean you take a "screw it, why bother?" view either. It doesn't mean it's okay to just keep throwing out bottom of the barrel trash. That's incredibly disrespectful to everyone, including what could be a pretty fantastic rotation. Is a Ludwick or Ross going to ruin our future if we sign them to a two or three year contract at under $10 million per season with at least $40 million coming off after next year?

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Message 546030.15 was deleted
  • 12/7/12
  • fargol

If you want them to go get a younger mediocre player, I have absolutely no issue.

I'm sorry if the prospect of a mid-30's mediocre player doesn't make me do backflips.

I want moves that make sense for the future. That means NOT dumping prospects, and NOT signing old guys. He does NOTHING for me. His presence won't increase my optimism for next year one iota. He's had 2 solid years and one good year in 10 seasons in the bigs.

"Is a Ludwick or Ross going to ruin our future if we sign them to a two or three year contract at under $10 million per season with at least $40 million coming off after next year?"

Nope. Doesn't help the future either. So why should I get upset when someone like Ludwick "slips through our fingers"?

I'm not saying I don't want him. Please understand that. I just won't kill SA for not getting him or similar players.

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  • 12/7/12
  • AdrianMonk

It takes courage to do nothing in the face of such pressure to act. You have to tip your hat to him.
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  • 12/7/12
  • pclfan2
I didn't tip my hat to him last season. I thought his inactivity was one of the key reasons the Mets fell apart in the second half of the season. The team was overachieving and usually in games. Often coming from behind, but when the bullpen totally collapsed so did the team. They just didn't have enough offensive talent to deal with terrible relief pitching. A few moves might have fixed it and basically not broken the spirit of the team. As for right now. The Yankees are offering Youkalis $12 million for one season. Basically what R.A. is asking from the Mets but for two. Youkalis wasn't that good last year but R.A. won the Cy Young Award and was one of the best players in the NL. Not only pitching great but a good hitting pitcher (sometimes the only Met who got a hit for innings of a game) and fielder. He is a bargain and they still won't pay him. The only reason they overpaid Wright is because they had to.
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  • 12/7/12
  • nvmets10

Should note, by the way, there's a bit of a difference between Ross (31) and Ludwick (34).

But does every acquisition have to make you do backflips? Everything can't be a high impact splash destined to benefit the organization 10 years down the road. You do have to, you know, just field a team. And we can't really even do that right now in the outfield. At least not without it being a complete embarrassment. I guess my question is then, do you have absolutely no problem with it again being a complete embarrassment?

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  • 12/7/12
  • AdrianMonk

It's just a feeling on my part more than anything, but I don't think things would be much worse in the outfield this year than last if we did nothing. Similarly, I don't think things would be that much better with Ross/Ludwick type signings. Things tend toward the ordinary from both directions.
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