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    • Building a bullpen
  • To:All
  • 12/3/12
  • beltrain15

I feel like the talk on this board is a bit too caught up with big trades for sluggers. I think the first step towards playoff dreams is building a bullpen. Remember when Omar rebuilt the bullpen before 2006? Guys like Darren Oliver, Duaner Sanchez and Chad Bradford basically came out of nowhere and dominated, and if Sandy can find arms like those for the pen next year that would be a major improvement. They were throwing absolute garbage out there last year, guys like Acosta, Ramirez, Batista and Rauch. Our shaky bullpen is what broke us in 07 and 08, and since then the pen has been awful every year. I honestly think that the dumbest decision Omar ever made was signing Schoeneweis and Mota instead of bringing back Bradford and Oliver.

I believe that investing in the bullpen will help us more than getting a guy like Justin Upton, mainly because it could potentially be much more cost effective. Its possible to go from having one of the worst bullpens to having one of the best without even spending 10 million. Rather than bringing in scrubs like Acosta, get guys with upside who could step in and perform at a high level. Get a guy like Darren O'Day in the Rule 5 draft, and instead of letting him go back to his old team after a week and watching him become one of the best relievers in baseball (thanks again, Omar...another brilliant decision), keep him and reap the benefits.

It definitely won't be easy (I'm pretty sure the best bullpen decision the Mets have made since 2006 was signing K-rod, and that's really not saying much), and Sandy made a terrible call by giving Francisco a 2 year deal, but the front office needs to worry more about bringing in quality relievers than making some fantasy trade. The Mets bullpen was a FULL 2 RUNS PER 9 worse than the best bullpen in the league last year, and even getting closer to average would add a lot of wins, especially with the solid rotation they have. I say we should worry about that before we worry about offense.

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  • 12/3/12
  • Kranesback
Actually replacing Francisco as the closer (i.e. trade him anywhere for anything) and adding a solid lefty to the mix plus what we already have may be enough.
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  • 12/3/12
  • bbyjean616
s long as our next line of pen guys dont get "hungry" at 4 am
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  • 12/3/12
  • metsheart
" The Mets bullpen was a FULL 2 RUNS PER 9 worse than the best bullpen in the league last year, and even getting closer to average would add a lot of wins, especially with the solid rotation they have. I say we should worry about that before we worry about offense"



With you 100% !!!

Pitching wins more than trying to outslug your opponents every day. Puts an awful ot of pressure on offense if they know they have to score 5+ runs every game just to have a CHANCE. See Texas Rangers before Nolan Ryan took over.

Said it before & I'll say it again -- LA Dodgers scored 13 LESS runs than Mets 2012 but had 12 MORE WINS!! LAD in WC hunt til the end of season (LAD = 86 wins / STL = 88 wins). CIN scored just 19 more runs than Mets but had TWENTY-THREE MORE WINS!!!

PITCHING!!! PITCHING!!! PITCHING!!!
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  • 12/3/12
  • alfolerud
We already missed out on Fujikawa, Cubs saw that Marmol couldn't handle the job, so they got a new closer. Meanwhile, we are sticking with Fraud Francisco.
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  • 12/3/12
  • oceans48
I think our pen could be better then anticipated with Mejia, Familia, Rauch, Hefner, Parnell, Edgin, Carson and FF (eventually getting replaced).
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  • 12/3/12
  • thebobymon
The biggest problem this teams pitchers face in any given year is Warthen.
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  • 12/3/12
  • alfolerud
Rauch is on the team still?
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  • 12/3/12
  • Remember86
I agree that pitching wins. And I agree the bullpen needs major improvement. However, I can't agree about our offense. The two playoff bound NL teams with team BA similar to ours had a far better pitching staff. And by that I mean, it wasn't even close. The Braves' team BA. was two points lower than the Mets while the Reds' team BA was just two points higher. HOWEVER, the Braves ERA was 3.42 and the Reds ERA was 3.34. Ours was 4.09. Although our bullpen was a major culprit to our problems, our lack of an offense (particularly in the second half) was an issue as well. We have no team speed. We have a serious power deficiency. The Braves are adding to their paltry offense. We can't catch up to the other clubs by just addressing the bullpen. We need to deal with the holes in the outfield and at catcher as well. I'm not saying sign Hamilton and every other big bat out there. But while addressing our horrible bullpen, we also need a definite upgrade in the offensive category.
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  • 12/3/12
  • bbyjean616
We can all argue on what wins, but what cannot be argued is that this whole TEAm needs to be improved. When the Giants won a few years ago, they were pitching heavy but then guys like Cody Ross lit up Roy Halliday like they were born to do it. The team stepped up. We need to improve pretty much everywhere. We need speed, power, defense, offense, clutch hitting, guts. At this point, Just fixing one thing is pointless. We need an overhaul
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  • 12/3/12
  • Oldfan

<<"I believe that investing in the bullpen will help us more than getting a guy like Justin Upton, mainly because it could potentially be much more cost effective"

I've been told by several posters that Alderson can't be blamed for signing and trading for bad relievers because it's the hardest thing to do. You just look at past stats and cross your fingers.

I'm not totally convinced that is true, but just in case it is, I think its best to not go down that road again. The Mets should probably just invite a bunch of guys to ST and hope they get lucky.

I think Alderson should concentrate his remaining money and efforts on areas that have a better chance of success than relievers.

(a bit of sarcasm)


Edited 12/3/12   by  Oldfan
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  • 12/3/12
  • bbyjean616
As long as it LOOKS like a good move, than he gets credit. Weather it works is irrelevant..... yes..... these are the arguments that happen here
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  • 12/3/12
  • BigTon
I agree.As much as i love a potent offense,nothing intimidates an opposing team like a mean bullpen.Granted a bunch of effective relievers aren't as sexy as a couple of big time high profile bats,but it can win you some games.
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  • 12/3/12
  • beltrain15
Overall their staffs were much better, but a starting staff of Dickey, Niese, Harvey, Gee and Santana/Pelfrey/Wheeler has the potential to be as good as any rotation in the NL. Our 29th ranked bullpen (.01 away from the WORST in baseball) is what brought the staff ERA down, and if we can get some quality relievers our staff could be just as good as anyone's. Thankfully the hardest part is taken care of, since we have a nice core of young starters.
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  • 12/3/12
  • brianinwi

I don't blame Sandy for Ramirez. No way on earth anyone could have predicted that he'd have his worst year ever for the Mets. In fact, for the right (low) price, I'd take a flier on him again, and hope that he rebounds to something like his career numbers.

Rauch and (especially) Francisco, though, were terrible deals at the time, and are still terrible now. There was really nowhere for either pitcher to go but down. Sandy definitely deserves the blame for these two.

And, yes... I'd very much like the Mets to see to fixing their bullpen as their top priority. Of course, I've been saying this ever since 2006...

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  • 12/3/12
  • PrayedforBay
You just made the argument against improving the offense. If you look at the biggest thing separating us from teams with similar offensive production (and worse) the teams with the good bullpens did well. So yes, the biggest x factor is having a strong bullpen. It's also one of the hardest things to establish in that you cant just throw money at it and expect results. For the most part these things are remade year to year.
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  • 12/3/12
  • PrayedforBay

Here is your favorite chart.

http://espn.go.com/mlb/stats/team/_/stat/pitching/split/128

edit: now before everyone goes... NO YOU'RE WRONG LOOK AT KC. Yes you need to look at SP too.

Strong pitching all around wins games.


Edited 12/3/12   by  PrayedforBay
Edited 12/3/12   by  PrayedforBay
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  • 12/4/12
  • Matt H

The 2006 bullpen was one of our keys to our success. Our starting pitching was not too good but we had a great bullpen, plus our lineup was pretty sick.

Ramirez was a great pick up last year but did not work out. For the most part, Rauch was good last season, but if he was off...he could not get an out. Only problem building is a bullpen is that relievers are not always reliable. I agree that if we had Oliver and Bradford in 07, we probably would have made the playoffs that season. Our bullpen fell apart in September and Wagner's injury did not help at all.

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  • 12/4/12
  • Metsbert

~~~ Actually replacing Francisco as the closer (i.e. trade him anywhere for anything) and adding a solid lefty to the mix plus what we already have may be enough. ~~~

I agree. I like the potential of our bullpen. Parnell looks ready to close games, Rauch was pretty good, and I believe Ramon Ramirez will bounce back. Elvin Ramirez & Josh Edgin have shown a lot of potential.

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