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    • Ideas for Davis,Niese,Dickey,Parnell,Murph
  • To:All
  • 11/30/12
  • stearnsy12

with David Wright now in the fold the Mets FO's work has just begun,a lot of holes to fill

the Texas Rangers are actually considering Greinke and a 130 million dollar price tag knowing they can afford EITHER Greinke OR Hamilton

what would they give us for Dickey and his 5 million dollar contract which would allow them to obtain an ace AND potentially sign Hamilton?....they are looking for a top line starter, veteran relief help and some catching help

Deal One: Dickey,Parnell,maybe Mejia,and RA's catcher Thole to the Rangers for Jurickson Profar (ML ready 20 year old SS with all the tools),Mike Olt,23 year old (3b-1b) David Murphy for RF,and a lesser prospect like Wilmer Font....Rangers have Beltre at third and Moreland at first and would love to have a shot at both an ace and Hamilton

the Rays are looking at Adam LaRoche and have starting pitching to spare,they need an upgrade on their offense after losing Upton,Pena,and their DH

Deal Two: Davis,Murphy,and Duda to the Rays for Matt Moore and either Chris Archer or Alex Cobb..we jolt their offense they give us pitching depth and a stud in Moore...they've still got Hellickson,Price,Shields,Archer/Cobb,Niemann

Deal Three: Royals looking for SP,so are the Jays: Offer Jon Niese for Myers or D'Arnaud,expand it some if you have to,offering Gee if we can land Myers in particular....or we can sweeten the pot by adding Wilmer Flores and getting even more back

with the money saved from Davis,Murph,Niese,and Dickey (about 14-15 million) sign either Bourn or Napoli depending on who we get,Myers or D'Arnaud

Bourn
Tejada
Murphy (david)
Wright
Olt
Myers/D'Arnaud
Profar
Kirk/or Barajas depending on what happens with Myers/D'Arnaud

Santana
Moore
Harvey
Archer/Cobb
Familia
Wheeler
Mejia

with Santana's contract coming off the books after '13 but now all we really need is one outfielder or a catcher,again depending on who we get for Niese

plus with Moore,Wheeler,and Harvey we have the top three of a young outstanding staff

  • Reply to this Message
  • To:All
  • 11/30/12
  • stearnsy12
yeah it's long and whacked but i think the central figures might actually be good fits for all the teams involved
  • Reply to this Message
  • 11/30/12
  • kinerskrnr
Honestly I don't want to trade Niese.
  • Reply to this Message
  • 11/30/12
  • murphstates
They're not bad ideas, but supposedly the Rangers would not give up Profar or Andrus for Upton. I don't think they would trade Profar and Olt in any deal.
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Message 545723.5 was deleted
  • 11/30/12
  • DFAB
I do see Texas as a possible landing spot for Dickey...but probably as a backup plan if the don't get Greinke. We should put both Dickey and Niese on the block just to see what teams would be willing to give up. Obviously in Niese's case, we would need a monster package to trade him. For Dickey, I'm sure there would be enough interest for someone to be willing to give up 2 impact pieces.
  • Reply to this Message
  • 11/30/12
  • stearnsy12

i understand that completely,but if you can get two starters in the Davis deal including a stud like Moore you then can deal from a position of depth you didn't have before,at least IMO

and if i can land someone like Myers in a deal that includes Niese/Gee or Niese/Flores getting more in return i consider it

but my gut reaction is not to trade Niese too,but he could bring back a crucial piece or two looking down the line

  • Reply to this Message
  • 11/30/12
  • stearnsy12

it's true they prefer not to deal Profar but i know they offered Olt in a deal for a lesser player,can't remember who but saw it on MLBTR

if they'd prefer Niese instead of Dickey (ie Niese,Parnell,Mejia,and Thole) for that package i'd do it too....even if i get a little less in return but i think the Rangers would listen...they've got Andrus and Kinsler up the middle with Beltre at third and Moreland and Young at first....they might be interested if we can set up the right package

or we can include Flores in the package with Niese and really up the ante

make the deal to the Royals or Jays Dickey/Mejia or Familia for Myers or D'Arnaud,respectively

i think we have the inexpensive pieces and can match up with teams with specific needs

  • Reply to this Message
  • 11/30/12
  • stearnsy12

but you wonder if they'd rather get Dickey for 3-4 years for a total of 35 million or Greinke for 6 years for 130 million??....

i think if we can put together Dickey or Niese and use either Parnell,Mejia or even Flores we can get back a very good package

  • Reply to this Message
  • 11/30/12
  • stearnsy12
trying again to get in on an adult convo,eh?.... don't bother,you're not up to speed
  • Reply to this Message
Message 545723.11 was deleted
  • 11/30/12
  • stearnsy12
lol,like i said long and whacky,sorry!!
  • Reply to this Message
  • 11/30/12
  • AdrianMonk

I don't know much about the prospects in Deal 1, but I like your overall thinking here.
  • Reply to this Message
  • 11/30/12
  • stearnsy12

here's where it gets tricky because Profar is the #1 rated prospect on MLB's prospect sites,and Olt is up there too....

the leverage here is that the Rangers would like to sign both Greinke and Hamilton but can only afford one

there's only ONE ace out there who would come inexpensively enough to upgrade their staff significantly AND allow them to have plenty of money left over for Hamilton

Greinke at 6/130 million or Dickey at 4/35 AND a shot at Hamilton???

we'd have to put a sweet package together for them to get Olt and Profar but to have an infield of Wright,Profar (age 20),Tejada at 2b (age 23) and Olt at first (age 24) it would be worth it AND if conceivably makes Wilmer Flores expendable and we can add him in on another deal

i know we disagree with Davis BUT again it's a question of leverage,they are talking to LaRoche as well as other teams offering pitching (they actually match up well with the Royals)....the Rays really need offense,a first baseman,and even a second baseman that will allow them to keep Zobrist in the outfield...put the right package together and we could really upgrade our starting rotation,enough to........

even deal Niese in the right trade!

the deals tie in together in that they will allow us to be able to then deal from a position of depth with a team that has specific but urgent needs

  • Reply to this Message
  • 11/30/12
  • DFAB

the following return would be the MINIMUM I would accept for Dickey and Niese...otherwise keep them:

Dickey: minimum 2 top prospects or equivalent

Niese: minimum 3 top prospects or equivalent

We just have to get the right return if we trade these guys. Trading either for less would make no sense and they would be more valuable on our team.

  • Reply to this Message
  • 11/30/12
  • stearnsy12

i agree that Dickey would bring us back 2 top prospects,especially if the receiving team has a window to make a deal....we might have to give a little more to get a team's #1 and #2 prospects however and that's why you would need Dickey plus a few players more to get back the package i'd hope for

Niese is a tougher question,he's young,lefty,signed to a very reasonable contract but i think 3 top prospects might be too much,especially again if one of them is a team's #1....

i think a package of Dickey (with a negotiations window),Parnell,Thole,and Mejia or Familia might get a nice return from Texas

and i think Niese and Flores or Niese,Flores,and Gee gets us an excellent package from the Royals or Blue Jays

i don't mind overpaying if i think i can get a special prospect in return along with lesser prospects and don't forget the deals give us flexibility and depth to make each succeeding deal

  • Reply to this Message
  • 11/30/12
  • DFAB

"Niese is a tougher question,he's young,lefty,signed to a very reasonable contract but i think 3 top prospects might be too much,especially again if one of them is a team's #1...."

I really think there would be multiple teams willing to overpay to acquire Niese...which would be the reason why Niese would bring back such a large amount. What makes Niese very valuable is his rarity. There aren't many good young LH pitchers out there who are signed long term on the CHEAP. Combine that with him potentially being a very good #2 and there would be a lot of teams asking about him.

"i think a package of Dickey (with a negotiations window),Parnell,Thole,and Mejia or Familia might get a nice return from Texas"

a package of Dickey ALONE should get something nice back...if not, then we hold onto him. Adding OUR good prospects to the deal kind of defeats the purpose IMO unless we are getting a young stud with ML experience and not just prospects.

"and i think Niese and Flores or Niese,Flores,and Gee gets us an excellent package from the Royals or Blue Jays"

Again, Niese ALONE should get an excellent package. Adding our best position player prospect doesn't make sense.

"i don't mind overpaying if i think i can get a special prospect in return along with lesser prospects and don't forget the deals give us flexibility and depth to make each succeeding deal"

I'm just not giving multiple pieces on our end just to receive ONE prospect...even one like Myers. Prospects are not proven. If he had success at the ML level then I'd be ok with it. There have been plenty of "can't miss" prospects that flopped.

  • Reply to this Message
  • 11/30/12
  • stearnsy12

again,i think it depends on the prospects...if you're talking 2 Top Ten prospects from a team i'd say yes to your thinking

but if you're talking a teams #1 AND #2 prospects??....i think we'd have to be realistic and maybe expand the deals somewhat

  • Reply to this Message
  • 11/30/12
  • DFAB
If Niese was made available I guarantee there would be a couple of teams willing to give up at least their 2 best prospects for him....and if not then don't trade him. We have no motivation to trade him unless we get a ton in return.
  • Reply to this Message
  • 11/30/12
  • stearnsy12
would you deal him for D'Arnaud or Myers?
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