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    • ethier or vlad
  • To:All
  • 9/11/08
  • mutttts

which one would you rather have for the next 3 years??

ethier 889 ops at age 26

vlad 869 ops at age 32

vlad has a few more home runs but he also has 32 more ab.

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  • 9/11/08
  • nard805

what are you stupid?
Vlad lol

Hr Derby Champ MVP Multi All Star


Edited 9/11/08   by  nard805
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Messages 98215.3 through 98215.4 were deleted
  • 9/11/08
  • butjob
I'd take Ethier. Yes Vlad has the name but Ethier is putting up just as good numbers this year. Add in the fact that he's cheaper, younger and doesn't have knees like an 75 year old man and imo it's an easy choice. If it was for one season you have to take Vlad but over the next 3 years Andre should put up numbers just as good as Guererro.
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  • 9/11/08
  • thinkbluebleedblue
This is Ethier's first year hitting THIS well, he always hit well. He also has Manny hitting behind him. Imagine if you had Vlad hitting in front of Manny? Probably wouldn't matter that Vlad would get more strikes with Manny behind him considering he hits balls out of the dirt, but you get the point.
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  • 9/11/08
  • richjh90

Ethier is right up there with Vlad this year...beating him in Runs, 2B’s, 3B’s, BB’s, SB’s, AVG, OBP, SLG, OPS…Vlad has four more home runs and twelve more RBI’s (but you have to keep in mind that he does have more at bats overall and more importantly he has 45 more at bats with runner on allowing for more opportunities to drive in runs)…keep in mind that Vlad is the oldest 32 year old (and it does take a leap of faith to believe he’s 32) in the league…his knees are bad…he has a great arm but he isn’t a great defender…Ethier is an outstanding defensive outfielder…he even has one more assists than Vlad this year…you also have to keep in mind that Vlad’s numbers are so far from his peak that it’s evident he’s declining…his home run numbers have pretty much gone down every year in Anaheim…he’s a terrific player but not the player he used to be...I’m not even saying that I would take Ethier over Vlad…but if you were to look at production only…Ethier has had a better season.

The Angels have an interesting situation developing…K-rod, Tex, and Anderson are free agents this season…Figgins, Vlad, and Lackey next season…the Angels have the same payroll as we do…if they want to keep that team in tact they will really have to bump that payroll…also, like us they have some poor contracts…if they do re-sign Vlad it’s possible that they are setting themselves up for an all-over 35 outfield of Vlad, Hunter, and Matthews…all on the decline…the Mets and Yankees are going to push hard for Tex…so while the Angels can retain him they will have to go into uncharted territory to sign him…same for Lackey…it will be interesting to see how things go down there…they haven’t gone head-to-head with the Yanks and Sox for one of these ridiculous 8 year/$175 million contracts yet…and with Tex, K-rod, Vlad, and Lackey they will have to do that multiple times in back-to-back seasons.

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  • 9/11/08
  • phattonez7

All of you people saying you'd take Ethier over Guerrero have to be kidding right? Ethier never showed much power in the minors (the most he ever had was 18 home runs) and his slugging percentage was always below .500. Even this year it looks like he's going to hit a little more than 20 home runs. Guerrero is a guy with a lot more power (career slg% of .574), a much better OBP, and a much better BA. He also hits more home runs and a much better arm than Ethier.

Btw, Guerrero has not hit below .315 since 2001 and before that the only time he did it was in his first full year in the majors. His OBP has not been below .380 since 2001.

Conclusion: Guerrero is having a down year, but even in a down year his stats are competitive with Ethier's.

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  • 9/11/08
  • nard805

Andres best year and Vlads worse year and Vlad still has him beat out on production,

Its not fair to ethier to put him in vlads leauge, Ethier and Brade Hawpe..... would be a bit better

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  • 9/11/08
  • nard805
dude you have no room to talk, you would take Loney over Tex... so please GTFO
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  • 9/11/08
  • richjh90

how did i know you would be the guy to respond? aren't you busy trying to figure out how you can tweak your Juan Pierre is a better player because he distracts the pitcher argument?

i didn't say that i would take Ethier over Vlad...all I said was look at the numbers this year...they are very close this season...Jason Schmidt has better lifetime number than Chad Billingsley even though Bils numbers are better this season...that doesn't mean that one guy isn't on the decline while the other is clearly developing into his own...throw in that one guy is allegedly 32 with knees that aren't getting better and the other guy is 26 and it's a compelling discussion...even the most adament Ethier-hater like yourself has to admit that.

I love how you were all about RANGE, RANGE, RANGE when discussing Pierre's defense vs. Ethier...but now that it's convenient to your argument you want to talk about who has a better arm...Ethier is a better all-around defender...that issue isn't even in doubt regardless of Vlad's arm...his arm is better but Andre has a strong accurate arm as well...it's not even close in terms of range and instincts...it's an adventure out there if that ball isn't hit right at Vlad...it's a shame his knees are so bad because as great as he is and has been he could've been so much better if it weren't for those years in Montreal.

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  • 9/11/08
  • nard805

wait wait wait
you cant compare Schmidt to Bills,

But the point is that Vlad can have and mvp year over the next three seasons.

Players are not starting to decline till they are 38 years old at the moment... so vlad wont start to decline for another 4 or 5 years,

Ethier may be a 40 HR guy,

Bu so was Shawn Green,

Vlad has proven he can hit 300 with or without a great hitter behind him,

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  • 9/11/08
  • richjh90

"Andres best year and Vlads worse year and Vlad still has him beat out on production,

Its not fair to ethier to put him in vlads leauge, Ethier and Brade Hawpe..... would be a bit better"

I agree w/ everything you say...Ethier probably will be more like a Hawpe...which is fine with me...Hawpe is solid...it takes those types of players to win games.

I don't think anyone is saying Vlad vs. Ethier in terms of their careers...but Vlad is clearly declining...and at some point Vlad and Ethier's careers will cross...maybe that is this year...Ethier is on the way up and Vlad is on the way down…Vlad says that he's 32...is there anyone out there that really believes that?

If I were to take the names off the stats and you were to judge them strictly on their 2008 stats and the facts we know about them…w/out reputation involved… player A with these stats…26 years old…solid all around…under control for a few more years…cheap…OR player B with these stats…maybe 32 years old?…bad knees…$15 million per year…will be looking for another contract at the age of 34…who would you take for the next 3-5 years?

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  • 9/11/08
  • scorekeeper
First of all, Vlad will probably stay with the Angels - so it's a moot point. But for the sake of discussion, I would keep Ethier. He is just now becoming an all-star caliber player. Yes, it has definitely helped him to hit in front of Manny in the lineup, but he would still do well otherwise. Vlad is a big-name and it isn't fair to compare Ethier to an established all-star. Check back in three years and Andre Ethier will be a big-name, All Star player ... hopefully, with the Dodgers.
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  • 9/11/08
  • richjh90
the numbers show he's declining...you are working under the assumption that Vlad is 32...i'm not.
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  • 9/11/08
  • jrod1976

Vlad no question, before this season. However, we need solid players to win. Andre may or may not turn out to be a star player. But he will be solid.... resembling the likes of Garrett Anderson, Brad Hawpe or most notably gritty, scrappy, and winner Paul O'neill.

Vlad is getting older and has an expensive contract, Either is up and coming and is one of those guys that doesn't demand a big contract.

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  • 9/11/08
  • nard805

I think if Vlad hits 300 30 Hrs with 100 RBI's then you got your moneys worth,

you need to take into consideration if you remove manny from the dodger's line-up Ethier goes back to being a 20 hr 70 rbi 280 guy

And vlad has had nothing but, Garret Anderson as protection.. One of the things That always impressed me about him is the fact he never had that big bat behind him so he didnt get the kind of pitches Andre Gets...

Vlad was a 5 tool player, but still a consistent 300 hitter with power and chan change a game in 1 swing...

Andre has been hot for 3 weeks. Ask me this question next year..
Vlad is like a Puljos, But if vlad is not 32 then I would say Puljos, is not 28, and Andruw is not 31,


Edited 9/11/08   by  nard805
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  • 9/11/08
  • richjh90

"And vlad has had nothing but, Garret Anderson as protection.. One of the things That always impressed me about him is the fact he never had that big bat behind him so he didnt get the kind of pitches Andre Gets..."

You could put Babe Ruth behind him and Mickey Mantle in front of him and it wouldn't matter...Vlad swings at everything...you don't have to throw him strikes...probably the only great power hitter of all time where this is the case.

"you need to take into consideration if you remove manny from the dodger's line-up Ethier goes back to being a 20 hr 70 rbi 280 guy"

How great are the pitches that Andre is getting?...during the month of September he already has 9 walks in only 32 at-bats...to put that into prospective that is one walk every 3.55 at-bats...pretty much one walk per game...the player with the most walks in MLB is Adam Dunn...he averages one walk every 4.21 at-bats...I think that says alot about his discipline at the plate...in a month where he is hitting .600 to this point he is going to blow away his best month in terms of walks.

How much of Ethier's success has to do with him knowing that he's going to be in there everyday as the right fielder and number two hitter...Manny has had an impact but Andre has been j.erked around with all season while Torre waited for Pierre or Jones to show him something.

"Andre has been hot for 3 weeks. Ask me this question next year..
Vlad is like a Puljos, But if vlad is not 32 then I would say Puljos, is not 28, and Andruw is not 31,"

Maybe this is true...but each of these guys is very different. Pujols was like 11 when he moved to New York City (on his way to Missouri)...Vlad was still in the Dominican when he was signed...did Pujol's parent's have the saavy to lie about the age of an 11 year old when they were already in the US?...watch Vlad run around and tell me that's a 32 year old man.

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  • 9/11/08
  • eastcoastf
i would prefer both.
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  • 9/11/08
  • phattonez7

Ethier and Vlad have similar range so there was no reason to bring that up. Btw, Vlad has 4 errors this year, Ethier has 2. Vlad has 8 assists, Ethier has 9. Vlad's RF is 2.06, Ethier's is 1.81.

Vlad has shown himself to be a guy who can consistently hit over .320 and hit over 30 home runs.

Btw, since the all-star break, Vlad is hitting .324 with a .555 slg% since the all-star break. He was probably hiding an injury during the first half of the year with such a discrepancy between his first half and second half. Vlad is obviously not on the decline.

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