Neither. I think at the time both were logical decisions. I do think Manny will hurt the worst because that's 20mil we can't spend on anyone else.

Well, considering Torre took two Dodgers teams full of young inexperienced players and NOT having a "team of "all stars" with the largest payroll in baseball" all the way to back-to-back NLCS, I would say Torre hasn't been a bad move.

Secondly, since the other one you asked about helped propell this team into the playoffs last year, I wouldn't really consier him a bad move either.

So, stop being a tool by trying to judge a team you obviously don't really know anything about.

It's amazing how some people feel the need to go to extremes in the assessment of individuals who have considerable accomplishments in baseball.

I thought Torre did a horrible job during the NLCS. It all started by naming Elbert to the team over Weaver, and was downhill after that.

But only a fool would shrug off his previous accomplishments. Last time I looked the Yankees missed the playoffs for the first time in over 10 years last season (with basically the same club) after Torre left. It was so bad they needed to break the bank and buy CC, Tex and Burnett. Meanwhile Torre has led the Dodgers to two straight NLCS appearances. Last year we were beaten by the eventual WS champions. Might be able to say the same this season too.

I'll never forget during the NLDS a fan of the Cards came on here and called their Manager, "Tony LaLoser."

So if Torre and Larussa, with all their accomplishments are terrible, where are all the good Managers? lol

I think people lose their credibility when they paint two HOF managers with such a broad brush.

I despise Ramirez but when the Dodgers traded for him, they were looking for an offensive boost in the arm and rolled the dice. How could anyone discount his previous resume. The Dodgers just hoped all of the other bizarro stuff with the guy would not affect the team. In the end I think the move will be a net negative one. But I give Ned and Frank credit for trying.

so the offensive boost they got when manny showed up, the people in the stands, and ROWDY when manny came absolutely did nothing? and lets not forget how much better dre hits just being in front of manny no matter if manny is raking or not

neither. the biggest blunder was when they decided not to trade for cliff lee because they didn't want to take on his salary. now we coming to find out that dude was our missing link....

Yep it gets harder to watch Cliff Lee every time he pitches. Let's hope we correct the mistake and sign him this off season.

man i wish. with the divorce battle looming, it seems like a pipe dream at this point....

He's still under contract for another year.

I wouldn't be surprised if Cliff Lee comes back to haunt us next season, too.

Pretty sure the Phillies have an option on Lee for next year for something ridiculous like $10M. They'll most certainly take.

Oh man that $ucks. That makes it worse. Let's hope he follows Hamel's path and has a .500 season next year.

Both are just stupid questions to be honest.

"Let's hope he (Lee) follows Hamel's path and has a .500 season next year" tim

That shouldn't be too difficult. For that matter he could follow his own path (14-13). :)

ps Lee's base salary for 2010 is $9M, unless the Phils buy him out for $1M (not gonna happen).

"ps Lee's base salary for 2010 is $9M, unless the Phils buy him out for $1M (not gonna happen)."

What if we offered them Hu? I've played this game before and Hu is the answer to one of the questions...

Cots says Lee's salary is 8 million next year. It was 5.75 million this past season. If the Dodgers had made the deal they would have only been on the hook for a prorated share of that naturally. I think that comes up to less than $2,000,000 in 2009. Or about one third of what Jamie needs to live every year.

The Dodgers aren't really serious about making a deal, unless they are willing to give up Hu in it.

I know it's hard to part with the guy, but if we want to get an ace in the offseason, Hu is going to have give up his Albuquerque home.

Cot's also says he gets bumped to $9M if he won the Cy Young in 2008, which he did.

Oh! Thanks. I missed that part. I think that's still pretty cheap for an ace. Doesn't Halladay get 15.75 million next year?

Stealth: We have had this discussion before. We are to never trade a prospect for a proven star no matter what. All our prospects are going to the Hall of Fame-Hoss

Hu though is in a special category. He's so good that the Dodgers are keeping him in AAA consistently so that he doesn't embarass the rest of the league too much with his elite play.