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    • Is Oakland Standing Pat Now
  • To:All
  • 1/5/13
  • cufc

Seems that way... I will be pleasantly surprised to see any strong additions to the roster now... There may be some veteran help invited to ST that helps out by default... But, that is from the typical bottom feeding that the A's always do - and do well (give them that)...

We are a middling team some bright spots with high hopes based on an anomaly of a season, last... The team need some help to make the next step and the management seems not to be doing anything about it....

The A's management likely are hoping for another miracle on a low budget venture again - and blaming the fans along the way for poor attendance - per usual...

I guess, a 2ND place finish with no playoffs would be a good target to sight in for this team in its current configuration..

It has a low chance of repeating its 2012 season success... The odds makers have them in the middle of the AL pack for the Pennant... At bad bets odds too - 15-1 is laughable... more like 30 - 1.... But, the placement is right...

The A's will be also rans and they seem content... As a fan, I'm not... I would be if they were losing money... But, I don't think that is the case - I think they are a good money maker...

  • Reply to this Message
  • 1/5/13
  • hvlniners

Yes, the A'S are standing pat. Also it is well known that the A'S clear around $30 million per year This has little to do with attendance- consession for A'S and Raider games, parking revenues, very favorable O.Com rents, and biggest of all, MLB revenue sharing. Yes Wolff and Co. are doing quite well thank -you and have been since purchasing the franchise.

  • Reply to this Message
  • 1/6/13
  • BeaneBall

The Athletics have had cheapskate ownership through their entire history with the exception of the Walter Haas ownership years. Since the Haas ownership was fairly recent, I suppose we expect that situation to repeat itself at some point.

Benjamin Shibe - 1901-1921
Connie Mack - 1901-1954
Earle Mack & Roy Mack - 1950-1954
Arnold Johnson - 1954-1960
Charles O. Finley - 1960-1980
Walter A. Haas, Jr. - 1980-1995
Stephen Schott & Ken Hofmann- 1995-2005
Lew Wolff & John Fisher - 2005-Present

Connie Mack developed championship teams and then sold off his best players just as Charlie Finley did in the '70's. Schott & Hoffman, Wolff & Fisher have just continued the tradition of low budget ownership.

This season is the 113th for this team and only 16 of those seasons have been under ownership willing to throw money around on players. I think we should, by now, be resigned to our fate.

  • Reply to this Message
  • 1/7/13
  • catfish71

I watched Duck Soup and Night in Casablanca with my sons last week. They both loved Duck Soup and the older one (14) loved both movies. The one liners were coming fast and furious!

And I would love to see an ownership group that actually spends a little cash on this team.

  • Reply to this Message
  • 1/7/13
  • cufc

HVL: Is that 30 million a real number????

Does that include all overhead of management costs of a MLB team

Or is that just Gross Income - The MLB players salaries total???...

There are signing bonus monies paid out.. These can be in the millions and are factored over years
Draft signings are not cheap anymore

ST is might be a nego when all the income - costs are added up... Certainly, not a big money maker...

Some monies go to contract overages to cover extra MiLB salaries... I would think..

Office costs, Man. wages and benis must be huge.... Does not Billy make 5 mil/year alone

Huge room, board and travel costs... think about the Management, MilB players on the A's, Scouts and Team moving about.. Wow!!!! Wonder, what the team's entourage cost is on a average day MLB Per Diem (travel included) on the road??? .... Betcha all of this is over 3 mil per year alone... A wild guess... But, I would think it is discussed a bunch when numbers are crunched.. A team at HQ must work real hard on this all year round....

I have the A's Grossing around 100 Mil... Gate/concess./parking/adverts is about 60 mil in Oakland based on last year's Attendance???... Less than 5 Mil from ST gate and sales... 30 to 35 MLB tax and Nat. TV package... Logo sales at 2 mil? ...Local TV and radio income cannot be much.. 2 mil tops.... This is very rough guessing on my part.... Have I left out anything???

Everything has to come out of this total...

So if it is a 100 - say a rough 60 in players MLB salaries... That leaves 40 mil to play with... 30 mil seems high with all the rest of the costs that must be backed out when factored in..

I may be low on the gross income figure too...

I do think they make money though... Just not 30% of total income... Think closer to 10% would be thought to be great... The Suzuki $$$$ dump last year, points to this kind of margin...

I would think the objective is to break even for most owners of MLB teams... In the past, the growth in value of the franchise covered the nego costs for many clubs... This may not be enough anymore though in this economy....

An interesting subject...

  • Reply to this Message
  • 1/7/13
  • TiggerBounce

<<<Or is that just Gross Income - The MLB players salaries total???... >>>

I might be wrong, but I interpreted what he wrote as the 30mil being the profit after everything else was paid.

  • Reply to this Message
  • 1/7/13
  • cufc

Tigger: I think, he did so too... But, it might be a gross profit figure - not a net profit one...

I wonder, where that figure comes from is all.... Probably, some sports writer who did some quick math... Leaving out a bunch of factors..

I don't know the A's finances for sure.... And to the best of my knowledge they are not public information either... Other than the players salaries... I don't think, the A' released that number!!!

This is one of the Sports Union issues that keeps popping up over and over... The recent NBA strike of a year ago... The NHL strike... Nobody knows the real totals... The scary part is the teams themselves don't know year in year out until the after the dust settles... Not trying to make this a union issue... Take unions to another thread - just pointing out that the incomes are closely guarded company/ franchise secrets - at least, until they need help - public or league...

  • Reply to this Message
  • 1/7/13
  • LongBeach_Jake

How is it the Unions fault that the majority of owners would rather make a huge profit every year than field a winning team.

  • Reply to this Message
  • 1/7/13
  • cufc

Jake: i was not blaming anybody there for anything ... Please, reread it...

The only point there was """disclosure of income"""" issues... The point was and is - it is sensitive!!! .... And we don't know what teams incomes are!!!

We don't know for sure what the Tax and TV revenue distributions are... We don't know anything...

I am just guessing... Thought, the 30 million figure was a high guess is all..

Nothing here t all about unions vs management... Relax...

  • Reply to this Message
  • 1/7/13
  • BeaneBall
As you can tell by my avatar, I'm a Marx Brothers fan, for sure. That style of comedy will not be seen again!
  • Reply to this Message
  • 1/7/13
  • flaminpen
Okay so maybe you can "say the secret void"! Go A's!
  • Reply to this Message
  • 1/7/13
  • BeaneBall

"Okay so maybe you can "say the secret void"! Go A's!"

LOL! If you have Netflix, you can watch the old "You Bet Your Life" programs from the early '50's. I think I just dated myself a little :-)

  • Reply to this Message
  • To:All
  • 1/8/13
  • bh192012

Note that those numbers are from a year (2010) when we had higher player salary, 76 million, and at least 15% less attendance due to a poorly performing team compared to 2012. "Operating income" for 2010 was 23 million. They probably made an extra 4+ million on seating and an extra (75-55) 21 million on lower salary. That's if the 55 million number doesn't count shedding Suzuki's salary....

So 23.2 million operating profit in 2010, + 21 million lower payroll in 2012, + 15% gate so + 4.35, plus some extra widgets and peanuts sold..... A's could have cleared 50 million in 2012.

At this point management should just buy a stadium out of pocket, no need for the public to get involved.

  • Reply to this Message
  • 1/8/13
  • cufc

BH: Good info and thoughts

Operating income??? Are you sure of that 2010 number and it being all inclusive of all outflow other than taxes???.. I'm a bit leery here!!!...

The org. costs beyond salaries are massive... Look at the signing bonus alone and deferred contract obligations (maybe there and huge in potenial), Billy and staffs wages, travel for all (100s of people during year ) , R&B for all (player/personnel per diems - at times in the 100s)... Equipment, medical... new turf... it is endless... Another outflow not mentioned yet, is there a portion of the take for the OA Coliseum beyond the rent in the deal ???

We must be figuring the average A's take on a bottom in a seat low too...
And/Or the MLB Nat TV/League Tax income must be much more than we thought....

2 things immediately come to my mind, if what you are saying is true,

First = the OA Coliseum certainly has the grounds and the duty to its citizens for demanding 8 figures a year from the A's for the use of the stadium in a lease (it plans on leaving)... It is clear the A's rent is too low by a factor nearing 10

Second = Coming off a 50 million income year (and folks on here are constantly complaining that folks don't support the A's!!!)... If your figures are right, then it becomes clear, it is the A's that are not supporting their fans... Everything is upside down

  • Reply to this Message
  • 1/8/13
  • flaminpen
Not to out-date myself...I am right with you on that one...just watched an episode around a week ago...I always meant to inquire, of you, about your Avatar. Strange how it all came together as it did. Thanks for the memories!
  • Reply to this Message
  • 1/8/13
  • BeaneBall

That old quiz show still makes me laugh. I guess Groucho's humor is pretty much timeless.

I've also been watching old Dragnet episodes from the early 50's. I read a few months ago that Ben Alexander mentioned they read their parts off teleprompters because they would shoot 6 episodes at once and had no time to memorize the scripts. Now when I watch those old shows I can't help noticing that their eyes are moving back and forth reading the teleprompter :-)

  • Reply to this Message
  • 1/8/13
  • flaminpen
Yeah! Now that's classic...the old "I Love Lucy" shows would commit blunders right on the "live" show and just ad-lib their way a lot.
  • Reply to this Message
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