• Welcome Guest
Tampa Bay Rays

Welcome to the Tampa Bay Rays.
Before posting, please review our Message Board Guidelines

    • How many catchers will Rays break-in in Posey Era??
  • To:All
  • 4/17/12
  • Cincykid337
Navi,Jaso,Chineros,Lobaton, Gimenez, a couple I've already forgot, and a couple of veterans who either couldn't hit (Shopp) or is grossly overweight so he can only catch half a season ( guess who?) The pitching has to suffer when half the games are received by rookies who don't know spit about American League hitting or hitters. While Buster Posey was sitting at Florida State. Nice...
  • Reply to this Message
  • 4/17/12
  • Casey
Why,Is there an imposed limit?
  • Reply to this Message
  • 4/17/12
  • RaysBucsLightning
I said back in the beginning of ST, that Giminez could be another of Andrew's "diamonds in the rough".....So far I like what I have seen behind the plate, at bat and running the bases from him....Hopefully he'll keep it up and we may have found the answer with Giminez......time will tell!
  • Reply to this Message
  • 4/18/12
  • misterv1
So far Mr. Molina sure hasn't impressed anyone at the plate or behind it. He can hit a little, but he makes Shoppach look like Ricky Henderson on the basepaths and is a "double play waiting to happen". If he is making the pitching staff better, I've been watching a different game and with his ponderous frame, I seriously doubt if he is quick enough to keep all the pitches in the dirt that Rays' pitchers throw in front of him. Giminez has been up and down a couple times and this might be his last chance to stay in the "Bigs", so I would bet the house that he will "make some noise" this time around.
  • Reply to this Message
  • 4/18/12
  • RaysBucsLightning
Regarding Molina, I'll give him a pass.....for now, and here is why. First of all he didn't catch the regular starters that much in ST, and second he is still getting used to the starting staff and it takes a little time for any catcher who is new to a team or system.......He has called good games, he has been a steadying influence on Hellickson (his own words!) and Shields feels he is a good fit and is comfortable with him behind the plate......So, for now, I'll reserve my judgement on Molina......As for Giminez who I touted since the beginning of ST, if last night was an indication of what we may be able to get from him, I'm fine with that......Like everything, time will tell!
  • Reply to this Message
  • 4/18/12
  • Cincykid337
I like Gimenez also but it will take him a couple of years to get him up to speed on calling a game.
  • Reply to this Message
  • 4/18/12
  • tknrg

Gimenez looks like he has possibilities.

Beyond that ... think ... "water over the dam" or "water under the bridge".

The Rays' player selection and development brain trust totally screwed-up as regards Posey ... but they've probably made up for it in terms of some of their other selections ... maybe especially as regards pitchers. (?)

  • Reply to this Message
  • 4/18/12
  • tknrg

Well ... Molina is batting about 55 points higher right now than Shoppach did last season. (?)

BUT ... I believe Shoppach is on a one-year, $1.2 million deal with the Red sox ... whereas Molina is, I believe, at $1.5 million with the Rays ... plus a $300k club option at the same price for 2013. (?) So ... Molina does cost more than Shoppach!

Maybe his best place is as a bullpen catcher or coach. (?)

So far ... although there's only a very small sample ... seems like Gimenez might be OK defensively and at the plate and, maybe with more ML-level playing time, he gets better. (?) (Of course, that says nothing about his game-calling knowledge and ability!)

Time will tell.

  • Reply to this Message
  • 4/18/12
  • RaysBucsLightning

Under the old regime they also passed on a guy named Pujols because, according to the scout (no longer with the Rays) "he hasn't got a ballplayer body, looks clumsy and won't hit ML pitching for power or average." So after to tryouts they said "no thanks!"...............

Every team has made blunders like that over the years, it's not just a Rays thing! What would the Mets have been and Oakland not have been had the Mets taken Reggie Jackson as the #1 pick in '66 instead of Steve Chilicutt (who?)

  • Reply to this Message
  • 4/18/12
  • tknrg

Yeah ... but Florida baseball fans had been hearing about Posey's exploits at FSU for two or three years ... and were undoubtedly much more in tune with (and much more informed about) his exploits and potential than Rays' baseball executives and player selection people who are actually from out of state.

In this particular case, not drafting Posey was a bigger than typical "blunder" by the Rays.

But, as I've said ... toemaytoe ... or ... toemottoe. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

  • Reply to this Message
  • 4/18/12
  • beansnap1

The answer is 22.
  • Reply to this Message
  • 4/19/12
  • misterv1
Your opinion is valid from a fan's perspective...it would be great if Posey was a Ray. But the factors and information considered by the RFO when they did their due diligence and went with Beckham over Posey will never be available to any of us, nor is our success or failure "on the line". How can you call it a "colossal blunder" without having all the facts at your fingertips?
  • Reply to this Message
  • 4/19/12
  • tknrg

I never said "colossal blunder"!

What I did say was that not selecting Posey was a "bigger than typical blunder" ... "bigger" because his immediate success was phenomenal ... because he clearly had a "bigger" immediate impact than any other player in that draft ... and because of his FSU exploits ... he very likely would have had a "bigger" effect in terms of putting fannies in the seats than will Tim Beckham.

I also never said that not drafting Posey put the Rays' success or failure "on the line".

BUT ... I did say ... "Beauty" ... in this case, the potential of an MLB draftee ... "is in the mind of the beholder".

And, from my point of view, which is pretty obvious from the context of my post, MY opinion on the matter was primarily related to the "fans' perspective". For a college player (much like Pat Burrell during his years at UMiami) ... Posey, while at FSU, had developed a pretty good fan base throughout Florida among die-hard baseball fans ... and ... with his nearly superhuman record as a player at FSU ... and the number of national awards which he won (repeatedly) ... the Rays' selection of him would have been a "natural" ... and probably should have been a no-brainer.

Therefore ... as far as the Rays' involvement goes herein ... I find it a little bigger than the typical blunder ... typical blunders often made by the player selection and development people of all MLB teams.

  • Reply to this Message
  • To:All
  • 4/19/12
  • starmand

Personally, I believe that folks don't use the word "gargantuan" enough.

As in... "that was a gargantuan mac' n' cheese".

  • Reply to this Message
  • 4/19/12
  • whosmad
Navaroo had an all-star first half in 2008, and we thought he was the catcher long term. Then he fell off. Can't blame the front office on not picking up Posey. We all loved Navarro in 2008.
  • Reply to this Message
  • 4/19/12
  • whosmad
Laugh out loud. While looking at Navarro's numbers from 2008, they are strangely similar to Kotchman's in 2011.
  • Reply to this Message
  • 4/20/12
  • misterv1

My bad...you said "typical blunder", not "colossal blunder". Regardless, you are in effect saying that the RFO made a "normal mistake" and I am saying that it was neither typical(normal) nor was it a mistake(blunder). Fans don't have the requisite savvy or information available with which to make judgements....opinions yes, judgements, no. A "blunder" is 2 +2 = 5 and selecting Beckham is 2 +(you don't know) = (you don't know).

In my remarks, "jobs on the line" was referring to the fact that fans have nothing at stake and can make any call they like "after the fact", but the execs responsible for making the calls "in the moment" are, in fact, held accountable for the long-term success and/or failure of those calls.

Your theory about Posey's ability to "put people in the seats" has some merit because of the FSU connection, but we both know there are many other, important considerations to be made in the selection process. One of which is attempting to forecast the outcome and that outcome is yet to be known. In the short term Posey would have been a "no brainer" as you say, but the RFO seems to have "made their bones" on building through their system, so any determination regarding the Beckham selection must wait a couple years before it can be accurately evaluated.

  • Reply to this Message
  • 4/20/12
  • RaysBucsLightning
Very well put!
  • Reply to this Message
  • 4/20/12
  • tknrg

Who knows what tomorrow brings ... but ... right now ... Posey was clearly the better choice ... simply because he's been helping his ML team win for two years already ... with a .294, 22 HRs, 88 RBIs and 172 hits last season ... while Beckham has been and is still playing minor league ball (and the Rays are still woeful at catcher).

In the end, as always, it's all about ROI ... and paying off sooner is generally better than paying off later. So ... the "blunder" here is simply not taking the guy who might have put more people in the seats sooner ... who might have substantively helped the ML team win sooner ... and the guy who might have specifically filled a now four or five years' old need of the Rays some two years ago.

As I've said ... much of talent selection is subjective ... and plenty of MLB draftees never actually make the majors leagues at all.

For me, and without any doubt whatsoever, I would have selected Posey before Beckham.

  • Reply to this Message
  • 4/20/12
  • Casey
You got to be kidding me..Posey over Navarro????
  • Reply to this Message
Recent Discussions
Who will win the AL East????
Latest by raydevil - 8:19 AM
Manny misses his family
Latest by nazzland - 8:19 AM
The Molina Moving Company
Latest by raydevil - 8:06 AM
Can this team stay out of last place? without Cobb, Price?
Latest by yodascout - 7:14 AM
Here's how Rays can get hot
Latest by nazzland - 7:10 AM
Stop the bleeding
Latest by yodascout - 7:04 AM
If the Rays are going to make a run
Latest by whosmad - 6:24 AM
last place
Latest by Casey - 12:13 AM
Rays problems versus online fans
Latest by Casey - Jun-19
The secret of watching the Rays
Latest by tknrg - Jun-19
Powered by Mzinga