So...can we say the Cliff Lee trade was a bust now?

Not until we see if Carrasco can come back and win a Cy Young in his career. Then it is a break even deal.

Hey, the deal could have been equal in my eyes, had we at least got a couple everyday position players, maybe one of them an All-Star, for this squad. The fact that we KNEW Knapp was injured when we agreed to take him, is astonishing. In fact to add insult to injury, WE INSISTED he was in the deal!!! Just shows you Mark got hosed, and if he was man enough, would admit it. But NO ACCOUNTABILITY with the current Indians brass.

DUDE, Lee is only 2-6 this year.

I think Shapiro got out while the getting was good.

...Ahem

The Cliff Lee signing is not looking very good so far.

He'll win one the first year we trade him.

What does that have to do with trading the 2008 Cy Young winner for garbage?

It's what Lee was worth at the given time of the trade that counts, and he was worth a lot!

Jason Knapp was the center piece of the trade for some dumb reason. but Carlos looked good before injury and we'll see wut he's like when he returns. Marson is a good young catcher. J. Donald has ability to be an everyday player if we trade him bcuz his numbers cant stack up against J. kip, azzy, or chizzy. the trade was fair not great.

As for Knapp idk y he was the center piece yes he could throw 98mph but as a starter he had only gone 3 innings a few times. so he was destined for the pen just as Hagadone was destined for though they try to stretch him out

"So...can we say the Cliff Lee trade was a bust now?" Not yet .Carrasco can still amount to something. Marson and Donald still haven't received extended playing time with regular ABs .Antonetti's signing of Damon and Kotchman meant reduced playing time for these guys .Philly wanted Donald back , but I don't know what their offer was . Shapiro made this deal because it was the best group of prospects offered at the time .

The key piece in the deal has called it a career... I'd say it's pretty much a bust at this point. But Carrasco can come back, and if he can fill in the #3 spot in rotation for a while, it wont be as much of a bust.

It's a shame, really. This trade had a lot of potential value when it was made. 4 of Philly's top 10 prospects. Two sure-fire major league role players in Donald and Marson to go along with two guys who had the potential to be #1 and #2 in our rotation for a long time.

I've been saying it since the trade was made. Knapp was INJURED, and we insisted he be in the mix/Philly had another pitcher we should have bargained for, we blinked/ one thing I know for sure, I'll never walk into a pawn shop and have Mark trying to help me negotiate. Marson and Donald will NEVER be All-Stars/If Carrasco can be a quality starter then it isn't a total bust/but Carrasco is a big IF, IMHO.

I live in New Jersey close to Lakewood which is the Phillies A minor league club and watching Happ pitch I can say that he completely dominated at this level and he was definitely considered a top of the rotation pitcher.

Insisting on Knapp in the trade is really bad because we had our own "Knapp" in Adam Miller already in the organization. They should have known better.

The trade was a very good haul for a pitcher the vast majority on this board, in 2007, wanted traded for anyone or even just released.

Look here, don't mislead people who might not know the truth. You know as well as I do, that Lee didn't have his Cy Young year until 2008, 2007 he was just about washed up/injured in the first half/ and sent down to the minors. Had we traded him THEN, we are not having this type of discussion. So stop. Amaro hosed Shapiro. We got taken to the cleaners, big time. Also, unless Brantley becomes an All-Star, the C.C. trade will be a bust as well. I want someone else making trades for the Tribe, not Shapiro/Antonetti. Thank you.

You're talking to the same guy that thinks the CC deal was a total bust... LOL

We traded two months of a pitcher that TOLD US he wasn't going to re-sign with us for 8 years of Michael Brantley, and that's assuming that LaPorta doesn't amount to anything. Still very lopsided in our favor.

Mislead people? .. Lee was hurt and working on a new pitch in 2007 and not good at all. It was all over this board to include him in a trade or even just release him. Indians management was wise enough to hold onto him. In 2008 Lee won the Cy and had a huge increase in value. ... People may have forgotten but all the previous is well known to an Indian fan that is on this board.

Believe it is obvious that although Lee struggled in 07 it was wise to hold onto him and not follow the majority on this board.

You don't get it...if you state facts that don't support his opinion, you are misleading the rest of the board and you are in fact only here to promote the front office's agenda...duh...

Look, you are mixing up two different events. I said Shapiro didn't get close to enough for Cy Young pitcher Lee/you are defending Shapiro due to the fact Lee was almost washed up and through as a pitcher in 2007 cause folks on the Indians blog wanted him traded??? Naw, you are tangling up events, clear your mind up;-)

I'll try to clear up my mind. Discussing One pitcher is a little complicated.