Right now, we have a great 1 through 4 and a solid #5 in Williams (finished the year strong and dominated in winter ball). Adding another solid pitcher (Lannan or Davis) would be useless. Williams is good enough to get wins matching up with other teams' #5 and in the playoffs Lannan, Davis, or Santana would be pushed to the pen.
If the Angels are making trades, I hope they target elite BP arms and prospects. Any trade talk for starting pitching is totally off base in my opinion and I'm sure JeDi sees the needs our club has and doesn't have.
While I agree that trading someone like Bourjos for a mediocre #5 pitcher isn't a smart move, the Angels could still use an upgrade there. Jerome Williams' last relevant year was 2004. He's never even pitched more than 132 innings in the Majors. You can't really expect him to be available for more than a dozen starts, and even in those starts he's going to struggle to even be a decent #5.
Also, other than the first time through the rotation and after the All Star break, pitchers don't match up based on their "rank" in the rotation. A #5 pitcher is as likely to match up with a #1 or #3 as with a #5.
Lannan actually makes sense for the Angels -- as long as the cost is a middling prospect and not Bourjos.
If you feel that way about Williams, great. He's 30 this year and hasn't pitched particularly well enough to even be a #5 starter since 2004. His brief time with the Angels in 2011 shows a nice ERA but a red flag in his 4.62 FIP, 4.19 xFIP, 4.49 tERA , and 4.25 SIERA. Essentially no pitching stat but ERA likes Williams as anything above average.
And he's still never been capable of a full season of work. That is not only a "personal" problem, unless you consider his years with the Giants to also count in that regard.
The Angels are not deep in major league ready minor league starters. A deal for someone like Lannan (it doesn't have to be him - someone like Paul Maholm, Bartolo Colon etc. would've been fine as well) makes a lot of sense.
< That is not only a "personal" problem, unless you consider his years with the Giants to also count in that regard. >
Absolutely! You don't really seem to know his history other than what you read in some stats sheet. I still don't understand why you seem to be advocating the Angels get a mediocre pitcher like Lannan, Maholm, etc. when they actually have pitchers in the minors that would most likely outperform them.
You're right, I don't particularly care about Jerome Williams' personal life. That he hasn't been a factor since 2004 is enough for me to write him off. 99.9% of the pitchers who haven't been relevant in 8 years will no longer be relevant. He's a feel good story, but most feel good stories don't have feel good endings.
Lannan can at least be a league average pitcher who you can legitimately expect to pitch 160-180 innings. I don't know that the Angels have anyone in the minors ready to do that.
Who in the Angels' system would be ahead of Lannan? Certainly not Williams.
And again, my point was not that Lannan was the only one who would work. Any league average pitcher who can stay healthy would be a fit.
I pretty much agree with your take on this - having Lannan as a #5 would be decent, but not at the expense of Bourjos - that's laughable - throw in Storen? nahh, they wouldn't do that, and we need Bourjos.
Like I've said before, I think Lannan would regress in the AL - he gives up far too many hits.
The thing about Williams is that he's found a pretty decent hard cutter that often breaks like a slider - that's what makes him a different pitcher than before.
But he is somewhat prone to leaving fat home-run pitchers in the middle of the plate.
So, I'm ok with him setting up as our #5. If he fails, we have Richards (who needs a little more seasoning, but he's coming along.)
Here's the bottom line - if we wanted Lannan, why didn't we just sign (former-Angels) Joe Saunders, who's probably a better pitcher, was non-tendered, for the same money, and give up no players?
And, if we could do *that*, why the **** would we give up a stellar defensive CF under club control for years to come for a back-end non-tender candidate? (guarantee Lannan is non-tendered next year.) (rhetorical question - I know you didn't make that case.)
IMO it's impossible to project what type of pitcher Williams will become this season.. He could become the next Ryan Vogelsong ( I wish the Angels still had him) or the next Matt Palmer.. Williams didn't exactly light it up in Salt Lake last season.. Other than Richards who is probably a year away, the Angels have Mills, Greg Smith, and Hurley slotted behind Williams.. One significant injury and the Angels would be in serious trouble..
I also believe the Angels are at least one arm short in the bullpen.. One significant injury or lack of performance by Walden or Downs and the Angels bullpen becomes really thin considering what's left in AAA..
Position players wise the Angels have 6 potential outfielders (Wells, Bourjos, Hunter, Trumbo, Abreu and Trout) with Moore in reserve at AAA..
Morales is probably going to be limited to DH duty this season and any of the outfielders mentioned above could also see time in the DH spot along with Pujols..
The Angels have 3 catchers (Wilson, Iannetta and Conger). One of them (Wilson) is out of options.
The Angels still have Izzy who can back up 3B, S/S and 2B along with Amarista and Romine in reserve in case of multiple injury..
All things considered, I expect to see Dipoto pull off a trade for another SP and/or RP for a positional player before the Angels break camp
"Williams is right now at least an average to above average #5 starter. "
And in February of 2011, Vernon Wells was poised for a 30 HR/100 RBI reason, right?
< Who in the Angels' system would be ahead of Lannan? Certainly not Williams. >
Why not? Arguably Williams and Lannan are similar (I personally think Williams is better) and Williams is making $4 million less than Lannan. $5 million just seems like to much money to be paying a "league average pitcher" when he is immediately replaceable at a much lower cost.
As someone else mentioned, signing someone like Harden or possibly Chris Young (depending on his health status) for less money, not having to give up a player, and having a lot more upside than "league average" makes more sense to me.
The Nats obviously are trying to move Lannan because they signed Edwin Jackson and they would rather give Wang, Detwiler, or one of their prospects a shot at the #5 spot over Lannan, so it seems to me that they don't think $5 million for a league average pitcher is a value either.
And as far as "any league average pitcher who can stay healthy would be a fit", there is no reason to think that Williams doesn't fit that criteria. Williams' problems were personal, not physical, but you should already know that by now.
>One significant injury and the Angels would be in serious trouble..<
And if DiPoto agreed with that, that we need some depth at starter, why then did he not make runs at some of those many "league-average" pitchers that were available? For instance, Saunders, Harang, Wang, Moyer, Garcia, Colon? Yet not a whiff of a rumor about any interest in any of them.
These pitchers would cost no more than Lannan, likely fare just as well, (or better), and wouldn't cost us a starting Center Fielder.
I'm all for adding depth, but you don't trade a starting center-fielder for a #6 starting pitcher, who, if we're lucky, won't start a single game for you all season - you just don't.