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    • Matt Cain And Cole Hamels 2013 SP Rotation
  • 1/4/12
Getting both is unrealistic. I'd definitely rather wait for one of them than go hard after Jackson or Garza now though.
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  • 1/4/12
IMO Cain is going to re-sign with SF... They have money, good young talent and it's pretty much a pitchers paradise in the NL West.... The Phillies will have to move some money around to resign Hamels and I just don't see it happening.... Just too many gigantic salaries on that team.

Edited 1/4/12   by  SmokeyMcPot
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  • 1/4/12
And also hope and pray that 'somehow' levine/hank do not convince management into EJax or Garza. If they do make a foolish mistake, it should be 1 year deal with Kuroda...
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  • To:All
  • 1/4/12
'foolish' as in effectively paying 17mil for kuroda...although it ain't my money and I care less, but that's a lot of money for a pitcher like him...just clarifying
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  • 1/4/12
The Phillies will do what they always do give him a low salary for the first yr and then back load the rest.
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Message 488237.7 was deleted
  • 1/4/12
It doesn't seem like something that would work in well with the plan to be under the 2014 luxury tax limit.
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Message 488237.9 was deleted
  • 1/4/12
Pretty sure that can't happen in baseball. Also pretty sure this 2014 thing is a soft limit moreso than a hard one. I can't imagine them passing on Hamels if he's out there.
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Message 488237.11 was deleted
  • 1/4/12

"Maybe CC, Tex, and A-Rod agree to restructure their contracts and backload some $$$ in order to help out."

MLBPA would never allow that... They could defer their salary but that salary would still be on the books as far as the luxury tax is concerned...


Edited 1/4/12   by  SmokeyMcPot
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Message 488237.13 was deleted
  • 1/4/12
neither will be a Yankees. Philies aren't letting Hammels go. Giants aren't letting Cain go either.
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  • 1/4/12
Matt Cain is an Odd pitcher... He has a sky high flyball ratio (no pun intended) at 44% for his career, yet he doesnt give up many HR 0.74 per 9 for his career. Now that may be attributed to AT&T park, but it shows he has a high % of IFB and a low LD% which means many of those fly balls are not hit hard. His BABIP is consistently low, but that is easy to explain with the FB ratio. What worries me is his velocity has dropped consistently, from 93.4 to now 91.2 and has a plus Curve and Change, his fastball effectiveness has also dropped, but his offspeed pitches have become more effective. While he is a good pitcher, he should stay in a pitchers park, especially as his velocity continues to drop
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As for Hamels, I am a big fan, ever since he was a top prospect I have liked him as a pitcher (mostly because his MILB numbers are out of this world good). But since coming to the majors he has been consistently around 200 innings, and has a career 8.45 K/9. While i think his 2.79 ERA and sub 1.00 Whip will not be the norm for him, I think he can be a consistent 200 inning, 1.15 Whip, 3.50 or better ERA for a long time, because his stuff and command translate into long term success. This season he did become a much better GB pitcher, which got his HR ratios down, which is a good sign as well he showed improved command down in the zone, His LD% and HR/FB ratios are dropping consistently as well, which means he is hanging less pitches and hitting his spots better as he ages.
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Unlike Cain, Hamels was at a career high in velocity last 2 seasons season at 92.0 and 91.7, and has a 3.42 xFIP, meaning he is not a product of luck or league. He added a cutter 2 seasons ago and now uses it to get ground balls early in the count, his change up is probably the best in the league, and last season his cutter was a +4.7, compared to -2.7 last season, meaning he is good at adapting. He does not throw a slider or a power breaking ball, which is good considering those are tougher on the arm than Change ups, Cutters and 76 mph curves.
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I vote Hamels
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Messages 488237.16 through 488237.21 were deleted