Hello all,

Saw an article on MLBTR from Ken Rosenthal stating that with the impending callup of Profar, Texas might be willing to trade Elvis Andrus this offseason.

Should the Pirates go after him? I know it would cost an arm and a leg, but he is only 23 and has World Series experience. Do you think it would be worth it to lock down a position which since Wagner the Pirates have been anywhere from marginal to awful?

I would absolutely go for it. It will be costly no doubt about it, but he's a true leadoff hitter which we do not have and he is one of the best defensive SS in baseball. It would surely cost either Cole or Taillon and Hanson, Polanco and maybe one of the AAA pitchers. At age 23, Andrus is very special already. If I'm the Rangers, I would be dealing Kinsler instead who is older and more expensive and just move Profar or Andrus to 2B.

Kinsler has all the tools though. If he could stay healthy (big if, always misses stretches it seems like year to year), he could steal 30 bags and slug 30 homers.

Andrus is good at getting on base and has good speed. His dWar is 0.8 this year, which is around 18-20 in terms of shortstops for the year.

Long story short, obviously better the what we have offensively, and if he can continue to have an OBP of .350+ he can defintiely set the table. Do we want to trade Cole of Taillon for him? Guess I'll let the powers that be make that call, but he doesn't excite me for a potential dynamic top of the line starter.

" a position which since Wagner the Pirates have been anywhere from marginal to awful?"

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<Dick Groat is pissed at this comment.

Jay Bell was pretty steady also. That guy knew the art of the bunt.

And Arky Vaughn is mad at both of you.

Elvis would be an amazing addition...Especially if paired with Presley in the same lineup!

Why would we send Andrus to AAA?

...and so is Pat Meares!!

seriously, i'd trade one of Taillon/Cole, Hansen, Polanco, and another solid prospect (including Heredia) for Andrus without batting an eyelash. he's the type of player that would make the Pirates significantly better in more than one way: solid defensive middle infielder and great leadoff hitter. and he's still so young. a core of Cutch, Walker, Marte, and Andrus would be sick. and i'm not even including Alvarez, Snider, and Gaby Sanchez (if he returns to his former self)

Does since Wagner refer to Honus? If so how do you explain a WS win in 60,71 and 79?you mean that Richard Groat ,who won several batting titles was just marginal? He also played in the WS. Other shortstops have played for the Pirates in 71 and 79.their names skip my mind now. But question is. Were they marginal or awful?
I had the privilege of seeing Wagner in the flesh and he was an inspiration to the players. But to render future shortstops marginal or awful tells me you have no clue to Pirate history.

Groat was not as good as Vaughn. Or any SS on the 71 or 79 team.

Wagner, Clemente, and Vaughn are the best players in the team's history.

I know he is having a pretty good year but he is still has a life time 277 batting average . I would love to see him come here but not at the price your suggesting .

HootsBuc,

You are speaking of Jackie Hernandez/Gene Alley in '71. Alley was injured most of the time.

Tim Foli was our '79 SS and he hit .333 in the WS.

Call me a fool but I always liked Jack Wilson.

Honus Wagner most assuredly is larger than life. I'd bet if he were playing today he would still be the best in baseball.

ok, then one of Taillon/Cole and Hansen, maybe include Polanco.

i don't think they'd do that though.

Haha for some reason it always sticks in my mind that Dic k Groat played second. It's stupid, I know, especially considering who did play second with him, but I don't know why I think that.

The 1971 shortstop was Gene Alley, wasn't it? I know 1979 was Tim Foli. Both were pretty solid players , so maybe marginal was a poor word choice. What I guess I should have said was that they haven't had a real star other than Wagner and Vaughn. Bad choice of words on my part, sorry.

Hernandez played the most SS in the WS. Alley was coming off an injury.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/h/hernaja01.shtml

...and so is UL Washington and Sammy Khalifa!

Arky Vaughan????

Why do Pirate fans seem to forget this guy??
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Vaughan was inducted into the National Baseball Hall of Fame in 1985. In 1981, Lawrence Ritter and Donald Honig included him in their book The 100 Greatest Baseball Players of All Time. In his New Historical Baseball Abstract, published in 2001, Bill James claimed that Vaughan is the second-best shortstop in major league history, behind fellow Pirate and mentor Honus Wagner. Vaughan is the 26th greatest non-pitcher in major league history, according to win shares.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arky_Vaughan

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Gene Alley? One half of the greatest DP combo ever.

As of 2011, his .385 batting average, .491 OBP, and 1.098 OPS in 1935 are all Pittsburgh team records,[12] and the batting average is a 20th century record for National League shortstops.