First off, let me just say that I love Chooch. I've always believed in him through his worst times (2008 when everyone wanted to dump him) to the outstanding times (2012, for example)... but could this offseason be the time to trade Chooch?
Coming off of this unbelievable season, his value will never be higher. And with one of our best possible trade partners (Texas Rangers) set to lose their catcher to free agency (at a price they likely can't afford to bring him back for), Carlos Ruiz could bring back a mighty haul of prospects, given his meager $5M price tag for next season. If the Rangers fail yet again to bring home the World Series, who knows what prospects (Profar, Olt, Perez, etc.) might be in play.
As much as it hurts me to say this, if we think we could acquire Napoli for around the 4 years / 52 million that Victor Martinez got, I think it could be high time to trade Chooch. Carlos is no spring chicken. And despite the fact that Valle is in AAA and Joseph is in AA, one of them becoming a top flight MLB starting C is less than certain.
Doing a deal like this would lock us in with an all star catcher at a reasonable $13M or so per for Napoli's age 31, 32, 33, and 34 seasons and more importantly would allow us to fill the 3B position (Olt) or the SS position (my Profar pipedream) with a stud player for cheap.
So what do you think? Would you be willing to trade Chooch this offseason, knowing that it's the final year of his deal, he's 34 years old, and he's coming off of a career year? And if so, what type of return would it take for you to give him up? And how would you look to replace it?
Let's hear it!!
"Doing a deal like this would lock us in with an all star catcher at a reasonable $13M"
Or we could keep Chooch for $8M less.
Valle can take after that (and Joseph not far behind) if Ruiz doesn't want to re-sign at a reasonable price after 2013.
"Or we could keep Chooch for $8M less.
Valle can take after that (and Joseph not far behind) if Ruiz doesn't want to re-sign at a reasonable price after 2013."
Carlos @ 5M is guaranteed for 2013, after which he'll almost certainly be commanding double digits for a 3+ year deal.
You might want to give Carlos a 3+ year deal covering his 35, 35, and 37 year old seasons on the basis of a career year, but I certainly don't.
And I don't want to lose that level of production that Carlos is giving us to go to an unknown in Valle or Joseph for 2014. I also think it would be a sin to lose Chooch in 2014 for nothing more than a sandwich round pick.
That's why I'm certainly open to trading him this offseason and getting slightly younger. The other thing I didn't mention is that *gasp* Napoli has actually been better than Chooch ever year except for 2012, where Chooch is having the best of his career and Napoli is slumping.
Would be a classic "sell high" on Chooch and "buy low" on Napoli type of move IMO.
Noooooo. Can't trade Choochie! I refuse to lose one of my favorite Phillies!
You can't trade Chooch anyway. Sure his value is really high, but he was the one true bright spot this season. And hey, if he can hit .300 next year and be nearly as clutch, you have your problem of needing a power hitting right handed bat behind Howard. No need to go out and waste more prospects or money on another Pence-type.
At the deadline, I saw people here advocating trading Choochie. And while I agree that was the highest point of his career to sell him, it would simply have killed the morale of the fanbase. In the off season, you probably won't get as much as you could have just gotten for him, but at $5 million next year he's a steal. And if you want to part ways after next year, you have two prospects who should be ready or nearly ready to take over.
Just like with Utley. Hernandez and Galvis should be ready next year. And Freddy has already shown he can take over for Utley. Heck, you might even be able to go into 2014 with Cesar at second and Galvis at third. What a treat that would be, especially if you have my man Dom and Tommy Joseph at left field and catcher. All that around a good core of King Cole, Howard, Papelbon, Lee, and Rollins. What a team that'll be! Mostly young and full of hot new stars in the making.
Almost makes me want to skip ahead to 2014 and forget 2013.
"You might want to give Carlos a 3+ year deal covering his 35, 35, and 37 year old seasons on the basis of a career year."
No, I don't. He's under control for one more year via his option at a very reasonable price. He's having a career year right now, but will he do that again next year? Hopefully he'll have a good year, but I don't see it being another year like this one. His performance next year will drive the price of his next contract and it may come at a more reasonable price due to his age and what numbers he puts up next year. I'd only want him back on maybe a 2 year deal and starting working in the young catchers of the future at that point too.
"...So what do you think? Let's hear it!!"
-- I will repeat my comment of early July that preceded almost a month of Mike Olt's name showing up in every single trade idea on this board -- I don't think the Rangers are going to trade Mike Olt. I think he is too important to them from a long-term roster cost perspective.
It doesn't have to be Olt. It doesn't even have to be the Rangers as a trade partner. The point is that Napoli will be out of a lot of teams' price ranges (but not ours), while Chooch would be well within them. There would be a bidding war for Chooch in the offseason.
It's a chance to flex our "big market" muscle and pick up a couple essential cheap controllable prospects along the way. And I know it's blasphemy to say this, but we might even get a better hitting catcher in the process, since Napoli has been better than Chooch most years prior to 2012.
Or we could just decide to go in another direction and get a bridge till the young guys are ready. It just seems like such a waste to trade Pence primarily for a top catching prospect and then eventually have Chooch, who is incredibly valuable right now, leave for nothing more than a sandwich round pick after 2013.
WHAT!! I find it hard to beleive that Cooch should be on the block. You've struggled enough this year. Why trade away one of your best offensive guys!?? Not to mention his defense. Really? What exacly is worth this kind of trade and what would you get for him?
Now, I'm not really into the Phillies trade market, but it seems to me that Cooch should be off the table. Am I wrong?
"we might even get a better hitting catcher in the process"
Mike Napoli is hitting .232
<<" it seems to me that Cooch should be off the table">>
I'll put up with elbows, but I agree, a girl should keep her cooch off the table.
As far as trading "Chooch" goes, I'm not thinking that is a serious possibility.
You responded to the wrong person, but I'll respond anyway.
Napoli is having a career worst year. Chooch is having a career best year. If you expect both of those two things to continue to happen well into the future then I guess I can stop discussing this with you.
You were also probably one of the people that thought Hunter Pence could continue hitting .315 like he did during his career year last year and you're also probably one of the people that think Pujols will never hit .300 again based on his horrible start this year.
The great thing about the free agent market / trade market is that it's so overreactive to what players have done lately. Hence we could get a ridiculous price for Chooch based on numbers he'll likely never post again, while we could probably pick Napoli up for cheap on the basis of his off season in a contract year.
"If you expect both of those two things to continue to happen well into the future ..."
I actually think that Napoli will remain at his current level of hitting and will not return to his previous level. I think it would be a mistake to give him 3 years at $13M per.
"The Phils have a ton of young catchers to replace him. "
If you are talking about Kratz he is 30, Valle? the guy JUST called up to AAA or Joseph the AA guy?