• Welcome Guest
New York Mets

Welcome to the New York Mets.
Before posting, please review our Message Board Guidelines

    • Mets outfield last year vs this year
  • 10/14/13
  • murphstates
Bump. A classic.
  • Reply to this Message
  • 10/14/13
  • metsheart
Please point out those DOZENS of posts where I'm "crowing" about how Cowgill, Brown & Hofmann.
  • Reply to this Message
  • 10/14/13
  • murphstates
There's lots of pages, read them.
  • Reply to this Message
  • 10/14/13
  • saztastic2012
Look how pathic murph is and the worst part is he is to ignorant to understand bumping these threads only proves what a pathetic troll he is.
  • Reply to this Message
  • 10/15/13
  • metsheart

"There's lots of pages, read them"



If there REALLY WERE "DOZENS" of my posts "crowing" about how much better the team was going to be with Cowgill/ Brown/ Hoffman then you should have NO TROUBLE finding at least a half dozen of them to show.


But you WON'T because you CAN'T. Because those "DOZENS OF POSTS" where I "crowed" about how great the TEAM was going to be w/ Cowgill/ Brown/ Hoffmann DON'T EXIST.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

You found ONE -- count 'em ONE -- post where I said Mets improved Mets OF w/ Cowgill AND Byrd. Well they DID improve the OF adding Byrd!! And were no worse than Jason Bay w/ Cowgill.


And your friend JamesHetfi3ld found ONE -- count 'em ONE -- post where I said IMO Mets had improved in the OF w/ Cowgill/ Baxter as a platoon. And that was before Opening Day 2013. Where there was reason to believe Cowgill would be OK as part of a platoon. Since he'd been better than OK as part of a platoon in Oakland in 2012. And Baxter had performed better than Bay in 2012. Turns out I was wrong about that. But again -- they were no worse than having Bay out there again.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Fact is before the season I never made any predictions that Mets would be better overall. Just that OF had been improved. Which IT CERTAINLY WAS with the addition of Marlon Byrd!!!


And as I recall you wanted Mets to sign anti-Semitic punk Delmon Young over Marlon Byrd. That would've turned out just dandy, huh??

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

But all of that is completely beside the point!! Because back in post #46 on thread called "I wish the Mets were half the organization the Cardinals are" I asked "Do Mets have a better team today than they did at beginning of 2013 season?" You answered they weren't in post #56 on that thread.


then I asked in post #107 on that thread:

"Zack Wheeler's NOT better than Shaun Marcum?

Vic Black's NOT better than Brandon Lyon?

Carlos Torres is NOT better than McHugh & Laffey?

Eric Young Jr is NOT better than Duda playing in LF?

Juan Lagares is NOT better than Collin Cowgill & Kirk Nieuwenhuis in CF?"



from your post #109 on that thread:

"Wheeler is better than Marcum"

"I'll assume Black is better than Lyon."

"Torres is better than Laffey or McHugh"

"Eric Young is better defensively"

"Juan Lagares is great defensively and well below average offensively."



So you admitted Mets are NOW better than they WERE on Opening Day 2013.


THAT was the point I was trying to make!!!


Edited 10/15/13   by  metsheart
  • Reply to this Message
  • 10/15/13
  • murphstates

And the lie continues.

They are not better. Certain players are marginally better and some positions are worse. As currently constructed, with no significant additions made this team would struggle to win 74 games.

Is it really that hard to understand? Is that clear enough now.

  • Reply to this Message
  • 10/15/13
  • metsheart
"Certain players are marginally better"



So you admit YET AGAIN that at some positions Mets are BETTER than they were on Opening Day.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"and some positions are worse"



If they have THE SAME PLAYERS at those positions then how are they WORSE now???

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

" As currently constructed "



More than likely there WILL be additions before Opening Day 2014.
  • Reply to this Message
  • 10/15/13
  • murphstates
They don't have the same players at those positions. Is it really this difficult to figure out?
  • Reply to this Message
  • 10/15/13
  • metsheart

"They don't have the same players at those positions. Is it really this difficult to figure out?"



See Mets Opening Day roster:

http://www.metstoday.com/8495/2013-spring-training/mets-opening-day-2013-25-man-roster/


Starting Pitchers

Niese
Harvey
Marcum
Gee
Hefner


Niese & Gee are still there. Harvey & Hefner are out for 2014. Wheeler & Mejia replace them. Marcum's gone. Replaced by Carlos Torres. So NET IMPROVEMENT from Opening Day 2013.



Bullpen

Parnell
Lyon
Hawkins
Atchison
Edgin
Rice
Burke
Familia?


Parnell's the same. Lyon's gone. Black & Germen are there now. Hawkins was good & is currently not signed. So that's a loss. Rest are THE SAME. So at worst net result is they're the SAME as OD.




Catcher

Buck
Recker


Buck replaced by d'Arnaud. Possibly a wash. Maybe better. But probably no worse.


And Centeno looked like he could be an improvement over Recker. So could be a net improvement at catcher than Opening Day.



Infielders

Davis
Murphy
Tejada
Wright


Davis, Murphy & Wright are the same. Tejada was back by the end of the season. So infield's the same as OD.



Outfield

Cowgill
Byrd
Duda
Baxter
Nieuwenhuis


Baxter's the SAME as Opening Day. Byrd's gone so that's a loss. Duda was replaced by Young who you already admitted was better defensively -- And I pointed out Young had a higher batting avg & higher avg w/ RISP & WAY more stolen bases. And you already admitted Lagares is better than Cowgill/ Nieuwenhuis. Which means NET IMPROVEMENT at 1 OF position.



Utility/ Pinch Hitter

Valdespin
Turner


Valdespin's gone (thank goodness). Satin is definitely an improvement over Valdespin. Turner's the same. So NET IMPROVEMENT there.



So overall Mets have had NET IMPROVEMENT since Opening Day 2013!!!

  • Reply to this Message
  • 10/15/13
  • Deadtrek
How low is the bar exactly?
  • Reply to this Message
  • 10/15/13
  • metsheart
Improvement is the name of the game. A little here a little there adds up after a while. Can't go from terrible to terrific in one fell swoop you know.


Or would you rather the team get WORSE at EVERY POSITION?
  • Reply to this Message
  • 10/15/13
  • Deadtrek

You do realize:

The Mets are tied with the Houston Astros for the longest active sub-.500 streak in Major League Baseball.

A "little" improvement per YEAR -- does squat. Ever realize some teams can vast improvements per year.

Sandy the commish to be -- in 3 years made 3 trades -- big whoop. Lucky for us no other GM's in the majors could have made those trades -- yeah right.

  • Reply to this Message
Message 548586.522 was deleted
  • 10/15/13
  • murphstates

You're entitled to your opinion. I don't share it.

The loss of Byrd (who I admittedly underestimated) alone is larger than the marginal defensive improvement in left and large defensive upgrade in center. I don't believe Eric Young is a starter caliber player and unless Lagares significantly improves offensively he is an offensive liability.

I also don't believe Harvey and Hefner are offset by Wheeler and Torres. Harvey was arguably the second best starter in baseball and Wheeler doesn't even approach that level. Torres and his 86 IP belongs in the bullpen as a long man and spot starter. You don't seem to understand the magnitude of losing Harvey and the ripple effect on the entire pitching staff.

There are reports Parnell may not be ready to start the season and Vic Black is an unknown.

What you're doing now is the same thing you did last off season. You're projecting your wishes and hopes into reality, but as we saw this year, wishes and hopes don't often translate into wins.

  • Reply to this Message
  • 10/15/13
  • metsheart

"You do realize:

The Mets are tied with the Houston Astros for the longest active sub-.500 streak in Major League Baseball"



Yes. You mentioned this 14 or 15 times before. That's a fact that will not change no matter how many more times you type that in. Can't change the past.


Only thing that can change is the future. Which is yet to be determined.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"Sandy the commish to be -- in 3 years made 3 trades -- big whoop"



Mets got Giants #1 pitching prospect for 2 month rental of Beltran.

Mets got #1 catching prospect AND top pitching prospect for Dickey (AND young OF that could be good down the road).

Mets got #9 prospect (2B) in Pirates system. Plus 2009 1st rd draft pick pitcher (Vic Black). For 4 week rental of marginal Major League Catcher + 36 yr old journeyman OF.


Alderson made one bad trade though -- Pagan for Torres & Ramirez. Ramirez had ERA under 3.00 for previous 4 seasons though. So at the time it made sense. But nobody bats 1.000. even top GM's make mistakes.


So Alderson made 3 really good trades & only 1 bad trade in 3 seasons.



How many trades in 3 seasons WOULD be a "big whoop" to you?


Edited 10/15/13   by  metsheart
  • Reply to this Message
  • 10/15/13
  • metsheart
The issue wasn't whether you think this one or that one at a given position is "starter caliber" on another team. Issue was whether Mets IMPROVED since Opening Day 2013. They absolutely HAVE.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"You don't seem to understand the magnitude of losing Harvey and the ripple effect on the entire pitching staff."



You don't seem to understand that Harvey in 26 starts was only 9W - 5L. Don't think that win total will be as hard to replace as you seem to think it will be. Like I pointed out before -- Wheeler was 7W - 5L in just 17 starts.


Time will tell which of us is right.


And keep in mind that Montero, deGrom & Syndergaard will be coming up at some point in 2014 (unless 1 of them is traded). So presumably that'll make a positive difference too.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"What you're doing now is the same thing you did last off season. You're projecting your wishes and hopes into reality, but as we saw this year, wishes and hopes don't often translate into wins"




Did I make a prediction that Mets would have more wins in 2013 than 2012?


What you showed by your inability to come up w/ those DOZENS of posts where I supposedly "crowed" about how great the team would be is that you don't understand what my consistent position here is. Which is I look at what's there & see POSSIBILITIES. NOT saying the team'll be "great." Just there COULD be improvement in a given area.


Some of them turned out well -- like Byrd & Hawkins. And some not so good like Cowgill & Marcum.


But bottom line is my contention still stands -- Mets are a better team now than they were on Opening Day 2013. Period.
  • Reply to this Message
  • 10/15/13
  • Deadtrek

How many trades in 3 seasons WOULD be a "big whoop" to you?

Enuf to get to the playoffs.

Funny I thought you were a fan of the cut and paste.

And yes three good trades to teams "going for it". Pretty hard to trade all that talent and get ripped off ,, so Sandy did his job and saved salary.

And when he does squatola again this year. I saved you some time:

Koolaiders CROW HASH

4 or 5 crows
1 (10 3/4 oz.) can chicken broth
1/4 c. butter
Salt & Pepper to taste
Juice from 1/2 lemon
8-12 oz. sliced mushrooms
Flour
1 bay leaf
Rice or toast
THE MARINADE:
1 pt. vinegar
1 pt. water
3 cloves garlic, crushed
1 tsp. salt
1/2 tsp. black pepper

Skin the crows. Cut away any fat. Cut bird in half. Mix marinade. Pour
over crow in glass container for 24 hours in refrigerator. Discard
marinade. Boil crow in a pot with water, 1 bay leaf. Remove meat from
bone, slicing it against the grain. In a large fry pan heat butter,
mushrooms and add chicken broth, lemon juice, salt and pepper to taste.
Simmer for 20 minutes. Thicken with flour. Serve over rice or toast.
Serves 4.

Bon Appetit

  • Reply to this Message
  • 10/15/13
  • murphstates
No they're not. Period.
  • Reply to this Message
  • 10/15/13
  • metsheart

"How many trades in 3 seasons WOULD be a "big whoop" to you?

Enuf to get to the playoffs"



Yeah go from 5 straight yrs of 4th place below .500 to the playoffs.....with HOW MANY trades in 3 seasons exactly???

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"And yes three good trades to teams "going for it". "



Isn't that what a good GM is SUPPOSED to do???

  • Reply to this Message
  • 10/15/13
  • metsheart
Just showed you in post #548586.518 position by position from Opening Day to closing day that they DID improve at some positions & stayed the same at others. Which is a NET IMPROVEMENT since Opening Day 2013.


What exactly have you shown to support your position? Apart from whining about the loss of Harvey & all of his 9 wins in 26 starts?

Edited 10/15/13   by  metsheart
Edited 10/15/13   by  metsheart
  • Reply to this Message
Powered by Mzinga