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    • Wilpon's Latest Insult to Our Intelligence
  • 6/19/13
  • metsheart

"Mike Adams track record would indicate that he is better than our BP acquisitions"





Turns out Adams is NOT better than Brandon Lyon (who's a yr younger than soon to be 35 yr old Adams).



Brandon Lyon

31 gms / 27.2 IP / 3.58 ERA

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/l/lyonbr01.shtml



Mike Adams

27 gms / 24 IP / 4.13 ERA

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/a/adamsmi03.shtml




So it looks as though your congratulating the Phillies for signing Adams for 2 yrs/ $12M was a bit premature.


Mets signing Lyon for $750K for 1 yr was a MUCH better idea.


So maybe Alderson really DOES know what he's doing.

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  • 6/19/13
  • murphstates

So with two-thirds of a season to go you're declaring Lyon a better pitcher than Adams over 0.55 difference in ERA? Adams has a lower WHIP and a better strikeout rate.

Mike Adams career ERA over nine seasons is 2.39, Brandon Lyon's in 12 seasons is 4.10.

Another ridiculous post.

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  • 6/19/13
  • metsheart
"So with two-thirds of a season to go you're declaring Lyon a better pitcher than Adams over 0.55 difference in ERA? Adams has a lower WHIP and a better strikeout rate"


"Mike Adams career ERA over nine seasons is 2.39, Brandon Lyon's in 12 seasons is 4.10"







No. I'm saying soon to be 35 yr old Adams is just about the SAME as Lyon. MAYBE marginally better. But sure as heck NOT worth $6M/ yr for 2 yrs vs $750K for 1 yr.


And PREVIOUS "track record" often isn't worth squat for aging relief pitchers. See Ramon Ramirez. See Heath Bell.
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  • 6/19/13
  • JoseJose

Maybe we should bump all those posts from the offseason that said:

Santana would be great and would be valuable in a trade

Cowgill was great

The bullpen was much better

Ike and Duda would rake

Tejada was great

etc. Makes you laugh.

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  • 6/19/13
  • metsheart
Who said "Cowgill was great"?
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  • 6/19/13
  • srdiddy666
You don't see a difference in a title like, "Wilpon's latest isult to our intelligence" and one like, "Cowgill's going to be awesome!"? The first is quite obnoxious and makes you want to remind the OP how much of aprick they were. The other one is what fans do - root for their players to do well.
Go ahead and bump some people rooting for their team if you like.
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  • 6/19/13
  • murphstates
Did I start the thread that resulted in the asinine bumping?
  • Reply to this Message
  • 6/19/13
  • Deadtrek

Are you hoping for a team where everyone makes under 1 million?

Lucky for you -- you can cherry pick your roster.

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  • 6/19/13
  • murphstates
I guess if your primary concern is saving Fred $5.25 million then I can't argue, but Sandy could have saved Fred $12 million by not signing a failed closer to be the closer.
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  • 6/19/13
  • metsheart
"Are you hoping for a team where everyone makes under 1 million?"




No. I'm hoping for a roster that ultimately produces good results.


And I'm hoping that Mets don't repeat the same mistakes they made in the past of VASTLY overpaying mediocre talent. Especially when equivalent talent is available at a fraction of the cost. So they can allocate their resources better to produce those good results.


In other words -- Spend where & when they really NEED to spend.
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  • 6/19/13
  • srdiddy666
Sorry, confused. Was this in reference to my post? It doesn't appear that you started this thread.
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  • 6/19/13
  • JamesHetfi3ld

'Spend where & when they really NEED to spend.'

Which is just about everywhere, and as soon as possible?

Unless you want to waste this talent the team is bringing up?

All they have is starting pitching. That may very well be the most important component to a winning team, but it isn't enough alone.

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  • 6/19/13
  • murphstates

Yesterday was a great day and I enjoyed it immensely, but the most important thing we need to see this off season is the ability to maintain at least the current payroll after the dead contracts drop off.

At this time next season we will be looking at one more year of Harvey before he is arb eligible. If he continues to dominate he is going to cost in excess of $10 million as of 2015. If we have a $100 million payroll it's doable, $70 million and it's going to impossible to improve the line up and keep the pitching long term.

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  • 6/19/13
  • metsheart
"I guess if your primary concern is saving Fred $5.25 million then I can't argue, but Sandy could have saved Fred $12 million by not signing a failed closer to be the closer."





Aren't you the same one that just said that a "track record" means something?



FF had just 29 sv opp for Texas in 2009 w/ 25 svs, 4 BS & 4 "holds." And had just 21 sv opp for Toronto in 2011 w/ 17 svs, 4 BS & 2 "holds". For comparison -- In 2011 Rafael Soriano for the Yankees had 5 sv opp & blew THREE of them & had 23 "holds." And yet the Yankees did very well w/ Soriano closing in 2012. So it was entirely understandable why Alderson might've had reason to believe FF could close effectively.


And like I've said before -- ALL GMs make mistakes. Nobody bats 1.000 in life.





My point here had very little to do w/ the Phils GM Amaro making a mistake. It was that YOU were very quick to congratulate the Phillies for signing Adams for $12M/ 2 yrs & very quick to criticize Alderson for signing Lyon. When they turned out to be the same pitcher so far.


So maybe you shouldn't be so quick to congratulate another team's GM for making a move before you see if it really WAS a good move.
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  • 6/19/13
  • metsheart

With ABOVE AVERAGE pitching all they need to compete is AVERAGE hitting. "'Spend where & when they really NEED to spend.'

Which is just about everywhere, and as soon as possible?

Unless you want to waste this talent the team is bringing up?"





I agree. The time to START spending is just about here. Because the Mets have FINALLY gotten enough talent to start forming a core (especially pitching).


I've said several times already that I fully expect the Mets to spend at least $30M-$35M this coming offseason.

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"All they have is starting pitching. That may very well be the most important component to a winning team, but it isn't enough alone"





Of course not alone. They are starting to have some good BP arms in the system now too. And a couple bats that could move up within the next 2 yrs.


With ABOVE AVERAGE pitching all they need to compete is AVERAGE hitting. And there will be some good FAs on the market this coming offseaon that can help them. And I think some trades will also be made.


So assuming the pitching continues to be good then there's a good chance the Mets could possibly compete for the WC next yr.

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  • 6/19/13
  • murphstates

Frank Francisco lost his closer role on several occasions before he was signed by Alderson. His track record was of failure to hold the position.

Mike Adams has been a superior set-up man throughout his career, but if you want to throw it in my face check the numbers when the season is over.

I know I will.

  • Reply to this Message
  • 6/20/13
  • metsheart

"Frank Francisco lost his closer role on several occasions before he was signed by Alderson. His track record was of failure to hold the position"





1) Never said Alderson didn't make a mistake w/ FF!!!


Once AGAIN -- ALL GMs make mistakes. No one bats 1.000 in life.




2) Once AGAIN you COMPLETELY MISSED the reason I bumped your post about Adams vs Lyon!!!


Like I said in post #237:


My point here had very little to do w/ the Phils GM Amaro making a mistake. It was that YOU were very quick to congratulate the Phillies for signing Adams for $12M/ 2 yrs & very quick to criticize Alderson for signing Lyon. When they turned out to be the same pitcher so far.

So maybe you shouldn't be so quick to congratulate another team's GM for making a move before you see if it really WAS a good move.

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  • 6/20/13
  • johnyringo
They should have started adding some legit players this year...I know Sandy was still tearing stuff down but its okay to multi task
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  • 6/20/13
  • metsheart
Then you STILL don't understand what rebuilding involves. Like I've told you before -- you don't start installing the penhouse beofre you have a stury foundation & solid levels all along the way. Otherwise the whole thing just comes crashing down.


Object of the game is to do things like the Cardinals & Braves. Have a very deep farm system so they have mostly homegrown players & just a few FAs on "reasonable" contracts. That way if a FA implodes (alla Jason Bay) the team's not handcuffed til the contract's over. The team could absorb that loss & still afford to get a replacement. Or just reach down into their minor league system for an adequate replacement. Which is why the Cards let Pujols walk for draft picks.





Mets just added Wheeler & Young Jr to the Major League roster. Moves that hopefully will make the team better.


And I don't think Alderson's done making trades.
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  • 6/20/13
  • johnyringo
Its okay to order wood while the concrete foundation is being poured....smart even
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