That is fair market value, Pagan got 4 for 40 and Bourn is younger and better then Pagan.
Maybe he is not worth 12 maybe he is but that is where the market is and what do we really care if we overpay a couple of mill for the next four year? With all the young guys we have that will be contributing while being paid the minimum or well below market value what is a couple of mill?
It is not the same as paying Bay 21 Mill to take up space and then go play for someone else because he can not hit here on top of paying Santana 30 Mill,
Major difference between having half your payroll in two players one of which cant hit the other being paid well over market even if he is very good for a full season and overpaying a guy 2 Mill when you have 3/5ths and at some point 4/5ths your rotation making the minimum (2014) and your number two who holds the 12th best ERA and 11th best WHIP in the NL making well below market value, You are you paying your C and 3/4thd of your infield minimum or well below market vlaue,
So who cares if they slightly over pay a couple of mill a year? I rather over pay then not have him, He makes amajor difference in our offense.
Bring him in and our offense that fell 50 runs short of being an upper tier offense last year is light years ahead of last years offense.
PS How anyone can not want this guy makes no sense to me. (assuming the pick is protected)
He's not that good.
Would he help ? Sure. But I don't wanna over-pay in dollars and years for guys who aren't impact players.
I'd offer him 1 year. 9 million2 years with a team option for a 3rd at most, or a vesting option for a 3rd year at the most.
If he feels he can get a better offer, then let him do so.
You dont think he is better then Pagan?
And what do you care if they over pay by a couple of mill? I understand not wanting to go too long in years but what do we really care if they pay him 12 or 10?
And the market was set by Pagan, I dont see any reason he takes less then what Pagan got, If it is the type of contract you speak of the mariners and other teams would step in.
who cares if we overpay? um... really?
giving him a 4th year is just asking for another luis castillo type contract. by the 4th year this guy could be terrible. no more than 3 years
>>>"You dont think he is better then Pagan?"<<<
Whether I do or not is not the basis for my decision on what I'd pay Bourn.
>>>"And what do you care if they over pay by a couple of mill? I understand not wanting to go too long in years but what do we really care if they pay him 12 or 10?"<<<
Because I don't generally cotton-to paying more for something than I feel it's worth to me - especially when the player isn't a stud to begin with, and even more especially when I don't think the team is going to finish any higher with or without him. It might be different if we were a team that was a player away from the WS, but we aren't.
>>And the market was set by Pagan, I dont see any reason he takes less then what Pagan got, If it is the type of contract you speak of the mariners and other teams would step in."<<<
If that is the case, then he'd have no reason to sign something he doesn't want to sign. If Bourn/Boris think they can do better, then let them do better.
>>>"who cares if we overpay? um... really? giving him a 4th year is just asking for another luis castillo type contract. by the 4th year this guy could be terrible. no more than 3 years"<<<
Funny, Castillo has been on my mind a several points today when when this site. LOL
He's not that good.
Would he help ? Sure. But I don't wanna over-pay in dollars and years for guys who aren't impact players."
Youre wrong and its not my opinion that says so. Its market values. Baseball players with less talent than Bourn got more. Thats its. End of story. Because YOU wouldnt do it is irrelevant. Fact is we have no lead off hitter, no speed, and few bats and Bourn will make the team better. teams THIS YEAR have paid more for less to make their team better and thats the bottom line. Youre over valuing your opinion and under evaluating Bourns ability to improve the team
>>>"I think you are undervaluing him as a player if you don't think he can help us to be better."<<<
I don't know where you could have read me saying he couldn't help us be a better team. I have said numerous times that he'd definitely help us. That doesn't mean however that we are going to finish better than 4th place this year. If we can sign him under the restrictions I have mentioned on various threads, then cool. If not, then I can live without him.
He is good, not great. And his cost is not prohibitive.
Sandy WILL sign him if the pick is protected. And he should.
In Sandy we trust.
>>>"Agent 86 I think you are forgetting you wont be paying him the Mets will LOL. "<<<
LOL... I am not forgetting anything. And before we go throwing around what we feel is someone else's money, just remember that when the budgets go bad and there is a reckoning, fans might end up paying the price across the board. It's our money too in a sense.
Regardless, all of us here post comments trying to think as GM and Owners do, and just because I am not writing the checks, doesn't mean I will toss around money in my own airchair plans for this team, that I don't think is suitable to be spent.
>>>"BTW What something is worth is what someone is willing to pay and Pagan's 4 year 40 Mill contract set the market, No reason Bourn who is better, Younger and more likely to live up the that contract should take less then Pagan."<<<
As I have stated more than couple times, if Bourn/Boris think they can get a better deal, then let them do it. Nobody is putting any gun to their heads to accept our offers. My only concern is what a player's value is to me, and to what the team's situation is at this time. Overpaying an average player, only to still likely finish 4th, makes little sense to me. If the Giants feel Pagan is worth 4/40 to them, and the Braves feel that BJ Upton is worth 5/75 to them, that's on them. They are teams who could make a WS run in their minds, so if they wanna overpay for those pieces to get them to that next level, that's their business. The Mets business and position at this point and time is different.
>>>"He is good, not great. And his cost is not prohibitive. Sandy WILL sign him if the pick is protected. And he should. In Sandy we trust."<<<
Yup. As I have said all along, if the price is right in dollars and years, I have no issue with signing him. But when I hear a few people talk about giving him a 4-5 year deal at 13-15 million, then I have a big problem with that. Yes, I trust Sandy will sign him to a reasonable contract if he signs him at all - but we shall see how it plays out. If we don't sign him, then I won't lose a wink of sleep over it.
While I agree with that 2 or 3 Mill is not enough to make it at issue, It is not the same as paying Bay 21 Mill to hit under .100, And at no point going forward will more then 50 % of the payroll be locked up in two guys as it is this year in Santana and Bay, That is what Sandy has been talking about, Having the budget better spread out over the whole roster so if one player fails it is not the end of the world, When your 21 MIll OF cant hit a HR to save his motehrs life it is a problem, When a player making 10 % of the budget starts to decline it is not a big deal, And as another poster pointed out with the revenue stream opening up next year for all teams getting whatever 25 30 Mill or so who really knows what Bourns value would be next year.
Bottom line unless I missed it I have not seen you give anything to support why you think his value is 9 Mill.