<Doesn't matter, yea we made some good moves so far this off-season, but we just don't match up with either of these teams. Upton to the Braves is a dagger to the heart of Mets.

The Nationals have big time talent basically at every position. The Mets are budding into hopefully a respectable team, but lets face it, we have some hell of a competition to deal with in the coming seasons. I see the sky falling.

Oh, and I might just be forgetting the Phils are regathering and licking their wounds to be a good team once again.

This isn;t just forecasts for the woeful near-term most of us can agree on, this is true for the long term prospect.

Yes indeed it is.

I do think the Phils will be right there too.

I agree this is a Braves/Nationals battle, with the Phils close behind. I also agree we do not match up with either team... yet. I do not see Upton as the Second Coming or a perennial MVP awardee. I do think he makes the Braves better though. Define long term ... needless to say 2013 is a no brainer, maybe 2014 somewhat less so. But going with the ever popular "IF".... 2015, we should start making our mark. To me, that is not long term. Eternally an optimist with a streak of the realist.

The Braves will have a borderline elite outfield on both sides of the ball as well as a group that is still extremely young (J.Upton 25, B.J. Upton 28, Heyward 23). Assuming that 23-year olds Freddie Freeman and Andrelton Simmons continue to make strides..

Shall we also talk about their pitching staff?

To answer your fundamental difference of opinion, long term for me is looking 2+ years down the road. Thats a long time for people, especially in New York.

I know the Braves have never been a team to sit still. They improve themselves constantly in all aspects of their roster. And I agree they have an OF that potentially could be with them for the next 7-10 years (give or take). The Mets would do well to emulate the way they conduct their baseball operations. That takes an FO that truly cares..something I do not believe we have right now.

As for the long term, thats why I said 2015. If it goes beyond that and the Mets are basically in the same shape they are in now ... if Citifield isn't completely empty ... fill in the rest. To me, long term is beyond that 2 year mark.

I don't even know about 2015. We will have to see how the Mets react in the upcoming offseasons. I cant believe they are in good financial standing to get those impact players.

Take it one season at a time. Anything can happen. From one season to another. Look at the Oakland A's

While I am realistic about 2013, I still look forward to the season starting. By the end of the season, no one that is a Met fan should have any question of what we need to do personnel wise. I don't trust Sandy in the least right now. If I am wrong, I will be the first to say it and apologize. As for the W boys... forget it, they are a lost cause. But, I do feel by 2015 we should be making our mark or at the least becoming respectable again. If we're not and are basically in the same shape we're in ... everyone will realize we've been BS'ed to by the boys. I'm truly hoping thats not the case.

With the Mets right now, thats the only way to go. But, speculation is what it is, an interesting exercise in futility. Also that is supposedly Sandy's plan ... be patient, etc. Patience is not always a virtue here.

Nationals I will give you but I don't really see how the Braves improved that much if at all this off season they lost Chipper Bourn and Prado, BJ Upton isn't that good and Justin Upton had a bad year last year and has yet to show in 6 seasons that he can hit anywhere outside of Chase field.

Is it lonely up there on that pedestal of blissful ignorance, or does that thought just help you sleep better at night?

But he's not wrong. If you're actually looking at facts, the Braves are indeed likely worse off with the combination of Johnson/Francisco, Upton, and Upton instead of Chipper, Prado, and Bourn. That's not to say they won't still be good; just maybe not any better.

What about the Marlins last year. They were supposed to be world beaters. You never know what could happen in this crazy game called baseball. LETS GO METSS!!!!

"This is a Braves and Nationals division"



http://the305.com/2012/02/29/miami-marlins-cover-the-latest-issue-of-sports-illustrated/

Marlins supposed to be MUCH improved in 2012 w/ offseason acquisitions. Finished LAST. AGAIN.



http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/sports/baseball/story/2012-04-02/NL-east-preview/53961000/1

2012 NLE supposed to finish:

1) Phillies
2) Braves
3) Marlins
4) Nationals
5) Mets

Actually finished:

1) Nationals
2) Braves
3) Phillies
4) Mets
5) Marlins



So much for pre-season predictions.

Games have to be played in the real world. Not on paper.

Sorry, but anyone who didn't see the Nationals rising last year, especially after the Gonzalez trade, was a fool.

With the pitching talent they have, it was no surprise to me at all, that they did so well last year.

Pitching is what won the title for the Nationals last year, plain and simple. They had the lowest era and WHIP in the league. There team hitting stats didn't lead the league at all. It was pitching, they were even better than the World Champs in that category.

I did look at the A's and saw great pitching (specifically relief)

I and many others on this board put much more stock into the Nationals then that link you provided. Not to toot my own horn, but I was only wrong about the Phils. And of course the Marlins really were an enigma.

Look the bottom line is it makes perfect sense to expect another Mets 4th place finish for the next 2 years even 3. This is the logic of trading away Dickey anyway.

I think that with the elimination of Bay, Torres, Thole and Nickeas we have unloaded nothing in the way of good offense. And I think that with younger players competing for the playing time the team will be more exciting to watch then last year. Grittier and more driven.

The Nats were highly pitcher driven and everyone knows how that can go with ups and downs but especially with injuries.

The Braves haven't gotten any better they just swapped players that were dependable for more flash and more Ks

The phils have a younger outfield but the rest of the team including the pitchers are getting older and last year they were showing some cracks.

Like always Baseball is unpredictable and we will have to see what happens on the field over the course of 162 games.