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    • Yes or No: Does this team make the PO with Bourn and Upton??
  • To:All
  • 1/23/13
  • KB24NYM

Lets say they pull off a trade for Upton without giving up any pieces that are expected to seriously contribute next season, and decide to give up the pick for Bourn...

Does:

Buck, D'Arnaud/Ike/Murphy/Tejada/Whiffboy/Duda/Bourn/Upton
Johan/Niese/Harvey/Gee/Young, Wheeler

Make the PO?

  • Reply to this Message
  • 1/23/13
  • thebobymon

No.

And the reason for this is our coaching staff.

Since Wille, then Jerry, now Terry, not a motivator in the bunch.

When our young guys falter, as they undoubtedly will, who is going to pick em up and keep em going?

Those 2 guys just make our chances better, but we still have a big flaw in the leadership.


Edited 1/23/13   by  thebobymon
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  • 1/23/13
  • RobfromLI

With Upton and Bourne?

On face value I say it's possible but I certainly can't say we would be a lock, no.

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  • 1/23/13
  • nvmets10
I honestly think it'd be a possibility - those are GIGANTIC upgrades. Though a lot would depend on how lucky we get with the bullpen.
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  • 1/23/13
  • jets_mets
Give me a break. Motivation? Is that why we havent been a good team lately? If you seriously think that you are braindead. Everyone on this team has said they love playing for Terry the problem has always been talent. Motivation give me a break. Thats the Skip Bayless analysis of sports and its a joke.
  • Reply to this Message
  • 1/23/13
  • metsheart
If BP's better yes. If BP's just as bad or worse no.

It's all about pitching.

Milwaukee scored MOST RUNS in NL in 2012 (776 RS). 126 MORE RUNS than Mets (650 RS). But Brewers only had 9 more wins than Mets (83 wins -- 3rd place NLC/ 14 gms out). Why? Milwaukee had #30 MLB BP (Mets #29).

Colorado scored 2nd MOST RUNS in NL in 2012 (758 RS). 108 more runs than Mets. Rockies had 64-98 record. Why? Colorado pitching allowed MOST RUNS in MLB (890 RA/ -132 run differential).





Better OF will help score some more runs. But if pitching's not there it won't matter.
  • Reply to this Message
  • 1/23/13
  • thebobymon

Who said that?

But if we do get pcs, it will most likely result in the disappointment type ending like 07 or 08, maybe not as epic.

When the team is bad talent wise, you overlook coaching, once there is talent the coaching becomes a factor.

I have little to no confidence in Warthen or Collins to lead this team anywhere.

Once I see this team play a full season then I can say the coaches are doing thier jobs.

The 2nd half drop offs are not just because of talent, the difference between first and second halves is astounding if you care to look at it.

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  • 1/23/13
  • METMAINEAC
What, team bowling nights dont do it for you?
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  • 1/23/13
  • nextyearm
With two wild cards its possible for sure those are 2 very nice pieces to add. Would need big years from other players too. Problem is i would put the chances of this happening AT BEST at 10%
  • Reply to this Message
  • 1/23/13
  • thebobymon
I forgot about that, now I need to post a retraction.
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  • 1/23/13
  • danthemetfan
No - the elite teams of the NL are too good. With Was, Atl, Philly, SF, La, even Stl and Cincy there are too many good teams to fight for the WC. It is a possibility, but the liklihood is that even with those two (Upton actually is not much of an upgrade over what the Mets have now) the Mets wont get 85+ wins. 81 maybe....
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  • 1/23/13
  • jets_mets
The second half drop off was because David Wright came down to earth and so did our starting pitching. Mainly injuries to Gee and Santana.
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  • 1/23/13
  • 58pwrhtr

with no closer, and a shaky set up situation not a chance.

Rotation should be solid and could be really good if Santana visits Ponce de Leon. Lineup would be amongst the best in the NL. But it does you no good if your pen gives up 30 leads.

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  • 1/23/13
  • nextyearm
Upton is not much of an upgrade? You can't be serious.
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  • 1/23/13
  • danthemetfan
it also helps (hurts) when the BP cant get anyone out. The biggest problem i see for the mets pitching this year is, who can go deep into games? Santana? no. Neise? maybe, but they wont let him get complete games. Gee? certainly not. Harvey? they will probably give him an innings limit as he is in his second year, so no. pitcher #5? highly unlikely. So the BP will be dead again in August, even if they are decent in the first half. When will they learn you cant have starters go 5 or 6 innings and have a good BP? until they do, this BP will be dreadful, and the team will lose down the stretch.
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  • 1/23/13
  • danthemetfan
Have you seen his splits? 66% of his production comes in Arizona. Out of that hitters dream house he bats under .250 with little power. Even his OB% stinks. He has one really good year, but in that year hit like .240 on the road with 10hr and that was his best year. Yes, that is not much of an upgrade, since he will be playing 81 games in Citi Field.
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  • 1/23/13
  • AdrianMonk

No.
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  • 1/23/13
  • lllfxlll
I'm going to say No. It makes the team tremendously better but they still need a BP.
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  • 1/23/13
  • nextyearm

It's also possible he plays better in his home park then at rival stadiums. He plays in a hitter park but he also plays in the NL west so he has plenty of games in other hitters parks.

He plays in Colorado, and Houston a bunch of times, also very good away parks to hit in. What is every away park a pitchers park?

My point is just because he hits less on the road doesnt necessarily mean he's a product of a hitter park, he may just be more comfortable in his home stadium.

There are plenty of hitters parks in the NL that he can inflate numbers, even better than Arizona. I'll take my chances with his upside anyday, he doesnt hit cheap homers where ever he plays.

I'm not saying hes an MVP, but to say he is barley an upgrade over Duda, Baxter, and Kirk, even with those splits is laughable.

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  • 1/23/13
  • danthemetfan
If Upton were in Colorado the same arguments could be made, but are not. aeveryone knows CO inflates your numbers, but so does Ariz - ask Mike Jacobs what he thinks of AZ. Citi Field is not an easy place to hit, and I expect a guy like Upton (who in a hitters park tops at .280 and averages about 18 Hr a year) to hit about .260 and 15 Hr... yea thats not much better than Duda who I have been quite vocal about just stinks. Upton had one nice year... One. That seems to be the standard for who to get now. If you get lucky once, come to NY for your pay check. Is upton an upgrade? Yes... is he a big upgrade? no.
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