Harold had ~3 really nice years, and was merely good otherwise.
Thinking about 2B, Joey Cora didn't play here as long, but was better imo. And there's also Boone, but rumors swirl about how assisted his great years were.
I personally Agree that Harold should get strong consideration for the Seattle Mariners hall of Fame. (and I think each year, his case will strengthen because of his spot at MLBNetwork.... Anyone who has seen him on any of the shows....you can tell he is "a Mariner" to the core......and stuff like that add bonus points for me(We All Love Edgar a bit more because he never left....words and actions that show they consider themselves a Mariners first and foremost..... well...I love that.)
Since the Seattle Mariners Hall of Fame is not just based solely on play in the field (by its own guidelines s)...It has 3 other guidelines...the one that weighs heavily in Harold's favor is...2) "Positive impact in enhancing the image of the Seattle Mariners or Major League Baseball. "
I may not agree with Harold's analysis some of the time....but just listening to him, he is a Mariner at Heart and its something that will never change. His position at MLB Network does enhance MLB...and the Seattle Mariners..... The number of high profile personalities that I see representing the Mariners in a public capacity are very very very few. (Besides Harold...and Dave Valle.....I am hard presses to think of someone who considers themselve a Mariner...and represents themselve as such on a daily basis.)
I have been a fan since childhood...until Harold on ESPN and them on MLB Network.... the Mariners mentions nationally was in the bottom 30 of the teams, even when they were good.You know....the "South Alaska" Mariners for anyone east of the Rockies.
The statistical standards are far less for the Mariners Hall of Fame than Cooperstown......The Guidelines are different as well....
To be honest...if I tried to come up with stats, or some argument how great he is representing the Mariners daily to all fans....People who wont consider Harold...I know I will never change their minds......I just hope over time that even the fans who never got to even Harold play, might be convinced just by him Representing the Mariners on MLB Network.
My Personal picks for the Mariners Hall of Fame will not be mainly stat based....if they did that, Alvin Davis would not be in.....He is in because he is Mr Mariner....the first Major award winner for the Mariners......If someone gives me a sense of feeling of pride in any way for being a Mariners fan, to me that person deserves bonus points. For me...each Year Harold Represents the Mariners nationally....that pride increases each year.
Harold Trivia:From 1980-1991 Ricky Henderson Led the American League in Stolen bases, except one year ...Harold Reynolds (1987)..... the story he tells about Ricky and that year is pretty funny too.
I am also a believer that Rick Rizz should be inducted at some point in the future.
Harold drops the Ms name here and there with regularity, nice, but not seeing that as enough to vault a man who was a good but generally pedestrian ML player to the team Hall of Fame.
What you posted ("enhancing image") is a secondary factor.
The website itself (http://seattle.mariners.mlb.com/sea/history/hof_guidelines.jsp) says, "The primary criteria for inclusion in the Mariners Hall of Fame shall be the on-field impact a player had while in a Mariners uniform. The measure of a player's impact shall primarily be the statistical record created by the player."
Related subject, let me be blunt (and possibly unpopular) and chip in that Dan Wilson's inclusion is a stretch. An All Star only once, his WAR numbers hardly impressive, he was a good catcher for a long time, but only that - good.
The argument I have with you on Dan Wilson is he is the only even remote decent catcher we have ever had he is by far the best we have had. Now if we were a storied franchise like the Yanks, pirates, redsox ect then I would see that but we are not an old team we cant wait 100 years to start putting players in our hall this is not Cooperstown it's Seattle! He was very popular with fans and teammates and other then a few games with the Reds played all of his career here.
And for Harold he was a star for our team other then Davis, there was no one else worth a darn on those teams from 86-88. He was much better then your giving him credit for, did you watch him? or just going on stats? Just a question, I can think of many many times that man won the game with a walk off hit or a great defensive gem.
The Nice thing about a Team Hall of Fame.....The Franchise can decide what other factors and to how much they want to take them into account. (If they didnt, I would actually say do away with the Team hall of Fame all together... and just have a section dedicated at Safeco to those in the baseball Hall of Fame)
Like you said...Dan Wilson is one of those who they took into account other factors.....by "the numbers" I completely agree and understand what ya mean (and I am surprised the "Dan the Man" fanclub hasnt lynched ya yet)....But with a Team Hall of Fame, (not saying its right or wrong) for the most part every team doesnt do it just based on stats only or mainly on stats (even if it states it in the guidelines).....they take into consideration ALOT of other factors.....Dan wilson got in...well...Fan Favorite gets ya alot of Bonus Points, Good in the Community...etc etc....Its obvious that he got in on many other factors than the stats. And I have no problem celebrating people who have had a positive impact on the Franchise as a whole.
In General, Hall of Fames for each team, is a way each franchise can honor players, managers, broadcasters and any other baseball personnel any way they choose......and by looking at other teams, its often fan opinion driven. Which I personally dont think its a bad thing....We already have a Baseball hall of Fame, if we arent gonna make the criteria different and/or use other factors based on how a fan base will reflect on it.....then imo we shouldnt have Team Hall of Fames (I think its the issue some people have is the term "Hall of Fame"). I would like the Mariners Hall of Fame to be an all encompassing collection of people celebrated.....Let the MLB Baseball Hall of Fame be something that people argue that someone should not be in because of minimum stat, racist, roider or someone because they're only this or that....
I would prefer if they just Change the guidelines to reflect exactly what team hall of Fames actual is....a celebration of people who have contributed in many ways to the franchise and baseball.
I am not Saying they should induct every Tom Diick and Harry....but if its just stats (or even mostly)...just do away with the Team HoF, we already have a baseball hall of fame for that.I personally like it, that the Mariners honor people for all Aspects.
I should have clarified about Harold.....The Mariners have primary qualifiers for non-uniformed personnel (they dont require it to be on-field)....this is so the rules dont exclude people like Dave Niehaus from the Hall of Fame, and others who might be deserving such as GMs or other personal who have contributed in their way just as much........and the off field is taken into consideration of an off-field personnel just as much as a players onfield. So at the moment...Harold's non-uniformed contributions to baseball are enough to put him on the bubble today imo (I dont have any problem with him not being innow)...but the longer he is a MLB network personality, the stronger case he will have imo
The One Person who I think will never make it in, but I could argue a good case for and is deserving now...(and yes I am biased, He was My favorite Player as a kid)
Julio Cruz---Stat-wise... sure he was the Stolenbase leader for 30+ years.....his base running and defense, were super...... but his bat was....well even for a 2b-man it was not good.But this is where the non-uniformed part of the guidelines is important. (the Mariners guidlines value it on the same level in the guidelines, because it is for the Mariners and meets the requirements alone..... I mean, even if he never played baseball, he could be considered under the non-uniformed guidelines alone....unlike Harold, who has to be considered un the secondary consideration guidelines)The Mariners started Spanish-broadcasting in 2003....and in 2002 the Mariners Hired Julio Cruz and he has been doing it ever since. I dont speak spanish....but alot of Mariners fans do.....
And Julio Cruz is on my Top 5 of Mariners of all time, so I have to want him in :-) (and Actually Ken Griffey Junior is Not in my Top 5, though he's in the top 10)
Many good points (and I will keep an eye out for the Dan The Man lynch mob), I'd just like to believe it will never get to the point that it is transparently, "Let's induct another guy, to boost attendance for a game this year." Two inductees in 2012, now another in 2013, it should not become an annual event. There have not been THAT many great, truly elite ball players who have worn a Mariner uniform.
I agree, I kinda like they did Dan with Randy....keeps it from looking like its an attendance grab. (if it was, they would have done in a previous year).
the Part that I personally am going to hate....is the "Hall of Fame" day....then several years later retiring a number that is obvious....and should have done at the same time of Hall of Fame entry. Edgar/Griffey/Randy..... Having Future "Retire the number" day.......I personally wish they would just do it the same day. We all know they are gonna Retire Griffey's number and Edgars.... Just do it at the Same time if ya ask me.
I personally would like to see them have an every 5 or 10 years, have a Frickesque (not broadcast required, but an addition to the Hall of Fame, that isnt exactly the hall of game)...where every 5 or 10 years...Non-baseball personnel can be honored, that have zero chance of actually getting into the Mariners Hall of Game as it stands now....but their dedication and contribution probably warrant it as much if not more than alot of the players.
Such People like...Rick the Peanut GuyKevin Cremin (Radio Broadcast Producer for the Mariners ...seems like forever)Rick Griffin- Head Trainer (has had a major impact obvious and has been here forever)Moose Clausen (most people dont know who is, but guys similar to him who dedicate their career to the Mariners)
Maybe a Special award...call it the Dave Neihaus Spirit award or something....and have it displayed in the Hall of Fame area...with a plaque with the names or something similar to the FrickAward that they display.
And I would only be in favor of it if it was special...meaning at most every 5 years.
I dont mind them waiting on Randy retiring his number (mainly, because when the scheduled it, it would be weird retiring a number that an active player was wearing)....
And they will Retire #51 for Randy (players have had their numbers retired by 2 different teams like Hank Aaron, Rod Carew and several others)
I am just curious if they will just do it on the same day as Retiring Ichiro's number....or if they will do one or the other first. (My guess is they will Retire Randy's Number the Year he is elected to the MLB Hall of Fame.
I have already prepared myself mentally for Randy to go in as a D'back.... doesnt matter if he does...to Me he is always a Mariner first and foremost.
On a slightly related note, I do wonder what Ichiro is gonna do when his ML career is up. He has not become particularly Americanized (quite the opposite, by all accounts), and he does zip back to Japan for the majority of every off-season from what I've read. I can't see him having much to occupy his time on this side of the Pacific.
In some ways, I am surprised he is continuing to be a Yankee, instead of going back to the Japanese league for the twilight of his career. It would be one thing if the Yankees were a big favorite in 2013, but with ARod's injury, various player departures, and other strong teams in the AL in general, I don't see them that way. And Ichiro's not particularly close to any big personal milestones (such as 3000 hits).